ANN: New stable release

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ANN: New stable release

Doug Kearns
I've just sent up vim-ruby-2005.09.15.

Regards,
Doug
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Re: ANN: New stable release

Doug Kearns
On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 04:09:45PM +1000, Doug Kearns wrote:
> I've just sent up vim-ruby-2005.09.15.

Sent to Bram too...
 
Regards,
Doug
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Re: ANN: New stable release

Hugh Sasse
In reply to this post by Doug Kearns
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Doug Kearns wrote:

> I've just sent up vim-ruby-2005.09.15.

I've given this a spin on an XP machine.  I tried using an eruby
file and observed from ftdetect/ruby.vim that *.erb is not included
with *.rhtml.  So I added that to where it had been installed (in my
vimfiles directory).  I then re-edited my thing.erb file, and it
still came up as being xml.

So I edited C:/Program Files/vim/vim63/filetype.vim and added an
entry mapping "*.erb,*.rhtml\t\tsetf eruby" and this worked.

The other thing that didn't work as expected was that the installer
didn't know that C:/Program Files/vim/vim63/ was a goot place to
look..  Maybe I'm keeping  it in a silly place, but vim seems happy
enough.

         * * *

Now, earlier today I installed the gem on a sun system.  It told me
to run the installer afterwards, but didn't remind me where it was
hidden.  Is that relatively easy to fix?  When I get a moment I'll
poke around with gem environment....

         HTH
         Hugh
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Re: ANN: New stable release

Doug Kearns
G'day Hugh,

On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 11:15:56PM +0100, Hugh Sasse wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Doug Kearns wrote:
>
> > I've just sent up vim-ruby-2005.09.15.
>
> I've given this a spin on an XP machine.

Thanks.

> I tried using an eruby
> file and observed from ftdetect/ruby.vim that *.erb is not included
> with *.rhtml.

Are *.erb files the same as *.rhtml files or are they simply Ruby
embedded in _any_ other filetype?

> So I added that to where it had been installed (in my
> vimfiles directory).  I then re-edited my thing.erb file, and it
> still came up as being xml.

Is it actually an XML file other than XHTML? Currently only X(HTML) is
supported.
 
> So I edited C:/Program Files/vim/vim63/filetype.vim and added an
> entry mapping "*.erb,*.rhtml\t\tsetf eruby" and this worked.

OK, seeing as you seem to think it's now working I'll assume it was an
XHTML file which was incorrectly being picked up as filetype=XML. I'm
just guessing but it sounds as though scripts.vim is setting the
filetype and ftdetect/ruby.vim isn't getting a chance. Could you send me
the file privately?  

> The other thing that didn't work as expected was that the installer
> didn't know that C:/Program Files/vim/vim63/ was a goot place to
> look..  Maybe I'm keeping  it in a silly place, but vim seems happy
> enough.

That's intentional as I don't think that is "a good place to look". ;-)
I don't do sysadmin work though so maybe I'm missing something. Why
would you want to install the files into $VIMRUNTIME? Are you running
multiple versions of Vim and trying to restrict the use of the vim-ruby
files to a single version, perhaps? If you keep it in $VIMRUNTIME the
next time you update Vim you'll overwrite the vim-ruby files. While the
Vim release might have the latest files it's certainly not going to have
newer versions than this project. ;-)

>          * * *
>
> Now, earlier today I installed the gem on a sun system.  It told me
> to run the installer afterwards, but didn't remind me where it was
> hidden.  Is that relatively easy to fix?  When I get a moment I'll
> poke around with gem environment....

I'm assuming that people running rubygems will have $GEM_HOME/bin in
their PATH. Have you just blown that assumption out of the water? ;-)

When you say "remind me" are you referring to the INSTALL instructions?

Thanks,
Doug

PS. We haven't had the usual flood of post-release discussion so I'm
hoping all is, generally, running smoothly...
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Re: ANN: New stable release

Hugh Sasse
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005, Doug Kearns wrote:

> G'day Hugh,
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 11:15:56PM +0100, Hugh Sasse wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Doug Kearns wrote:
>>
>>> I've just sent up vim-ruby-2005.09.15.
>>
>> I've given this a spin on an XP machine.
>
> Thanks.
>
>> I tried using an eruby
>> file and observed from ftdetect/ruby.vim that *.erb is not included
>> with *.rhtml.
>
> Are *.erb files the same as *.rhtml files or are they simply Ruby
> embedded in _any_ other filetype?

I don't think there's an official definition for these extensions,
but I use .erb for _any_ other filetype, when .rhtml is not
appropriate.  I don't know what others do.  (Ruby is very Unixy (for
want of a word!) and people don't discuss extension names that much
:-))
>
>> So I added that to where it had been installed (in my
>> vimfiles directory).  I then re-edited my thing.erb file, and it
>> still came up as being xml.
>
> Is it actually an XML file other than XHTML? Currently only X(HTML) is
> supported.

Yes,  I've be exploring Festival speech and this is a sable file. If
that means nothing, then its just XML, which I've ERB'd to factor
out repetition.
>
>> So I edited C:/Program Files/vim/vim63/filetype.vim and added an
>> entry mapping "*.erb,*.rhtml\t\tsetf eruby" and this worked.
>
> OK, seeing as you seem to think it's now working I'll assume it was an
> XHTML file which was incorrectly being picked up as filetype=XML. I'm
> just guessing but it sounds as though scripts.vim is setting the
> filetype and ftdetect/ruby.vim isn't getting a chance. Could you send me
> the file privately?

I'll see if I can find a more concise example.  There's lots of junk
in it, but it was the first that I was playing with.  Will you still
need this if the ".erb implies html" assumption is false?
>
>> The other thing that didn't work as expected was that the installer
>> didn't know that C:/Program Files/vim/vim63/ was a goot place to
>> look..  Maybe I'm keeping  it in a silly place, but vim seems happy
>> enough.
>
> That's intentional as I don't think that is "a good place to look". ;-)
> I don't do sysadmin work though so maybe I'm missing something. Why
> would you want to install the files into $VIMRUNTIME? Are you running

I only have one a/c on the machine just now, but I'd like others to
get the benefit.  Similary on Unix.  I usually put the vim stuff to
be system wide so everyone benefits, and if I have to help them I
can spin up vim and have it work sensibly.  [cf the PragProg advice
about use one edior and learn it well: you don't want it to change
too much just because you're logged in as someone else (who never
uses that editor, anyway).]

> multiple versions of Vim and trying to restrict the use of the vim-ruby

I was running 62 and 63 at the same time for a while, but I thought
it would install in the latest.

> files to a single version, perhaps? If you keep it in $VIMRUNTIME the
> next time you update Vim you'll overwrite the vim-ruby files. While the

Which is fair enough.  I know we've had problems with keeping in
sync with the vim distro before, so I usually install again after
updating vim.  Not that I've updated vim that often, only been using
it since about 5.7.

> Vim release might have the latest files it's certainly not going to have
> newer versions than this project. ;-)
>
>>          * * *
>>
>> Now, earlier today I installed the gem on a sun system.  It told me
>> to run the installer afterwards, but didn't remind me where it was
>> hidden.  Is that relatively easy to fix?  When I get a moment I'll
>> poke around with gem environment....
>
> I'm assuming that people running rubygems will have $GEM_HOME/bin in
> their PATH. Have you just blown that assumption out of the water? ;-)

Ah. Maybe I've not configured my settings correctly:
GEM_HOME: Undefined variable.
whereis gem =>
gem: /usr/local/bin/gem
gem environment

Rubygems Environment:
   - VERSION: 0.8.11 (0.8.11)
   - INSTALLATION DIRECTORY: /usr/local/lib/ruby/gems/1.8
   - GEM PATH:
      - /usr/local/lib/ruby/gems/1.8
   - REMOTE SOURCES:
      - http://gems.rubyforge.org

>
> When you say "remind me" are you referring to the INSTALL instructions?
gem query -l -n vim =>

*** LOCAL GEMS ***

vim-ruby (2005.09.15, 2005.07.27)
     Ruby configuration files for Vim.  Run 'vim-ruby-install.rb' to
     complete installation.

So it has detected the need for this?
>
> Thanks,
> Doug
>
> PS. We haven't had the usual flood of post-release discussion so I'm
> hoping all is, generally, running smoothly...

Or those in .ac.?? and .edu are going nuts in preparation for the
start of the academic year and have not had chance to tackle this.

         Thank you,
         Hugh
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Re: ANN: New stable release

Doug Kearns
On Fri, Sep 16, 2005 at 11:59:32AM +0100, Hugh Sasse wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Sep 2005, Doug Kearns wrote:

<snip>

> I don't think there's an official definition for these extensions,
> but I use .erb for _any_ other filetype, when .rhtml is not
> appropriate.  I don't know what others do.  (Ruby is very Unixy (for
> want of a word!) and people don't discuss extension names that much
> :-))

Right, well this is going to be 'interesting' to implement. I guess we'd
need to run scripts.vim to determine the main filetype...

<snip>
 
> I'll see if I can find a more concise example.  There's lots of junk
> in it, but it was the first that I was playing with.  Will you still
> need this if the ".erb implies html" assumption is false?

No, thanks. A simple XML file with .erb extension is exhibiting this
behaviour. I may just be misunderstanding the way filetype detection
works.

<snip>
 
> I only have one a/c on the machine just now, but I'd like others to
> get the benefit.  Similary on Unix.  I usually put the vim stuff to
> be system wide so everyone benefits, and if I have to help them I
> can spin up vim and have it work sensibly.  [cf the PragProg advice
> about use one edior and learn it well: you don't want it to change
> too much just because you're logged in as someone else (who never
> uses that editor, anyway).]

Right. Obviously the installer allows you to install it anywhere you
like but, I would think, the scenario you describe is best served by an
install in $VIM/vimfiles.
 
> > multiple versions of Vim and trying to restrict the use of the vim-ruby
>
> I was running 62 and 63 at the same time for a while, but I thought
> it would install in the latest.

If you install in $VIM/vimfiles then these files will be available,
system-wide, to all versions. However, the ftdetect mechanism was
introduced in 6.3 so earlier versions will require a filetype.vim to be
constructed as per :help new-filetype. So even if you didn't manually
add a new filetype.vim, 6.2 would still have access to all the updated
vim-ruby files. The only difference would be that eRuby files weren't
autodetected.

I can't really see a down side to this setup. Perhaps this is where we
should start rambling about POLS? ;-)
 
> > files to a single version, perhaps? If you keep it in $VIMRUNTIME the
> > next time you update Vim you'll overwrite the vim-ruby files. While the
>
> Which is fair enough.  I know we've had problems with keeping in
> sync with the vim distro before, so I usually install again after
> updating vim.  Not that I've updated vim that often, only been using
> it since about 5.7.

You are but a young pup. ;-)
 

> > Vim release might have the latest files it's certainly not going to have
> > newer versions than this project. ;-)
> >
> >>          * * *
> >>
> >> Now, earlier today I installed the gem on a sun system.  It told me
> >> to run the installer afterwards, but didn't remind me where it was
> >> hidden.  Is that relatively easy to fix?  When I get a moment I'll
> >> poke around with gem environment....
> >
> > I'm assuming that people running rubygems will have $GEM_HOME/bin in
> > their PATH. Have you just blown that assumption out of the water? ;-)
>
> Ah. Maybe I've not configured my settings correctly:
> GEM_HOME: Undefined variable.

<snip>

Nope - sky high! ;-)

It seems that GEM_HOME is only required for a 'user' install. Though the
core assumption is still correct.

> > When you say "remind me" are you referring to the INSTALL instructions?
> gem query -l -n vim =>
>
> *** LOCAL GEMS ***
>
> vim-ruby (2005.09.15, 2005.07.27)
>      Ruby configuration files for Vim.  Run 'vim-ruby-install.rb' to
>      complete installation.
>
> So it has detected the need for this?

This is all Gavin's work and I assume that he knew what he was doing as
he's a rubygems developer. ;-)

I just performed a default system-wide install of rubygems and it
appears to install the executable scripts in /usr/bin - the same place
'gem' is located. So there shouldn't be any need to specify a location
for the installer script.

If it's not in your PATH maybe your installation is, in some way,
'corrupted'?

<snip>

> > PS. We haven't had the usual flood of post-release discussion so I'm
> > hoping all is, generally, running smoothly...
>
> Or those in .ac.?? and .edu are going nuts in preparation for the
> start of the academic year and have not had chance to tackle this.

I'll await their return to these matters then. ;-)

Thanks,
Doug
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Re: ANN: New stable release

Hugh Sasse
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005, Doug Kearns wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 16, 2005 at 11:59:32AM +0100, Hugh Sasse wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Sep 2005, Doug Kearns wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I don't think there's an official definition for these extensions,
>> but I use .erb for _any_ other filetype, when .rhtml is not
>> appropriate.  I don't know what others do.  (Ruby is very Unixy (for
>> want of a word!) and people don't discuss extension names that much
>> :-))
>
> Right, well this is going to be 'interesting' to implement. I guess we'd
> need to run scripts.vim to determine the main filetype...
>
> <snip>
>
>> I'll see if I can find a more concise example.  There's lots of junk
>> in it, but it was the first that I was playing with.  Will you still
>> need this if the ".erb implies html" assumption is false?
>
> No, thanks. A simple XML file with .erb extension is exhibiting this
> behaviour. I may just be misunderstanding the way filetype detection
> works.

I'm not certain how it works either.  I think there are at least two
things going on, extension and syntax checking...

>
> <snip>
>
>> I only have one a/c on the machine just now, but I'd like others to
>> get the benefit.  Similary on Unix.  I usually put the vim stuff to
>> be system wide so everyone benefits, and if I have to help them I
>> can spin up vim and have it work sensibly.  [cf the PragProg advice
>> about use one edior and learn it well: you don't want it to change
>> too much just because you're logged in as someone else (who never
>> uses that editor, anyway).]
>
> Right. Obviously the installer allows you to install it anywhere you
> like but, I would think, the scenario you describe is best served by an
> install in $VIM/vimfiles.

OK. I didn't create that because it wasn't there.  I'll maybe try
that tonight.
>
>>> multiple versions of Vim and trying to restrict the use of the vim-ruby
>>
>> I was running 62 and 63 at the same time for a while, but I thought
>> it would install in the latest.
>
> If you install in $VIM/vimfiles then these files will be available,
> system-wide, to all versions. However, the ftdetect mechanism was

OK.

> introduced in 6.3 so earlier versions will require a filetype.vim to be
> constructed as per :help new-filetype. So even if you didn't manually
> add a new filetype.vim, 6.2 would still have access to all the updated
> vim-ruby files. The only difference would be that eRuby files weren't
> autodetected.
>
> I can't really see a down side to this setup. Perhaps this is where we
> should start rambling about POLS? ;-)

I think that's right now I understand how it works.  So now I would
not be surprised.
>
>>> files to a single version, perhaps? If you keep it in $VIMRUNTIME the
>>> next time you update Vim you'll overwrite the vim-ruby files. While the
>>
         [...]
>> updating vim.  Not that I've updated vim that often, only been using
>> it since about 5.7.
>
> You are but a young pup. ;-)

Only in vim years :-)  I used vi before that, and even SOS on a DEC
System 10 more years back than would interest most people!

>
>>>>          * * *
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm assuming that people running rubygems will have $GEM_HOME/bin in
>>> their PATH. Have you just blown that assumption out of the water? ;-)
>>
>> Ah. Maybe I've not configured my settings correctly:
>> GEM_HOME: Undefined variable.
>
> <snip>
>
> Nope - sky high! ;-)

? (To quote `ed` :-))

>
> It seems that GEM_HOME is only required for a 'user' install. Though the
> core assumption is still correct.
>
>>> When you say "remind me" are you referring to the INSTALL instructions?
>> gem query -l -n vim =>
>>
>> *** LOCAL GEMS ***
>>
>> vim-ruby (2005.09.15, 2005.07.27)
>>      Ruby configuration files for Vim.  Run 'vim-ruby-install.rb' to
>>      complete installation.
>>
>> So it has detected the need for this?
>
> This is all Gavin's work and I assume that he knew what he was doing as
> he's a rubygems developer. ;-)

See below.
>
> I just performed a default system-wide install of rubygems and it
> appears to install the executable scripts in /usr/bin - the same place
> 'gem' is located. So there shouldn't be any need to specify a location
> for the installer script.

OK: whereis vim-ruby-install.rb =>
vim-ruby-install: /usr/local/bin/vim-ruby-install.rb

Oh, I didn't expect an install script to end up there, in the normal PATH.
I thought it would be hidden within the place gems are stored for
use the one time.
>

brains# vim-ruby-install.rb

Possible Vim installation directories:
         1) //.vim
         2) /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles

Please select one (or anything else to specify another directory): 2

Target directory '/usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles' does not exist.
Do you want to create it? [Yn] y
mkdir -p /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles
mkdir -p -m 755 /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/compiler
compiler/eruby.vim        -> /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/compiler/eruby.vim
compiler/ruby.vim         -> /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/compiler/ruby.vim
compiler/rubyunit.vim     -> /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/compiler/rubyunit.vim
mkdir -p -m 755 /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/ftdetect
ftdetect/ruby.vim         -> /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/ftdetect/ruby.vim
mkdir -p -m 755 /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/ftplugin
ftplugin/eruby.vim        -> /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/ftplugin/eruby.vim
ftplugin/ruby.vim         -> /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/ftplugin/ruby.vim
mkdir -p -m 755 /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/indent
indent/ruby.vim           -> /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/indent/ruby.vim
mkdir -p -m 755 /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/syntax
syntax/eruby.vim          -> /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/syntax/eruby.vim
syntax/ruby.vim           -> /usr/local/share/vim/vimfiles/syntax/ruby.vim
brains# exit
brains# logout
brains hgs 252 %> gem query -l -n vim

*** LOCAL GEMS ***

vim-ruby (2005.09.15, 2005.07.27)
     Ruby configuration files for Vim.  Run 'vim-ruby-install.rb' to
     complete installation.
brains hgs 253 %>

So not quite that magic then.  I thought that suggesion would disappear.

> <snip>
>
>>> PS. We haven't had the usual flood of post-release discussion so I'm
>>> hoping all is, generally, running smoothly...
>>
>> Or those in .ac.?? and .edu are going nuts in preparation for the
>> start of the academic year and have not had chance to tackle this.
>
> I'll await their return to these matters then. ;-)

I'm one of those, but took the plunge nonetheless.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug
>

         Thank you,
         Hugh
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Re: ANN: New stable release

Doug Kearns
On Fri, Sep 16, 2005 at 04:01:50PM +0100, Hugh Sasse wrote:

<snip>
 
> brains# vim-ruby-install.rb
>
> Possible Vim installation directories:
>          1) //.vim

Maybe if the user is root we should just offer the system-wide
directory?

Just out of interest is HOME often set to / for root? It's been a long
time since I've used anything other than linux where it usually seems to
be set to /root.

<snip>

Regards,
Doug
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Re: ANN: New stable release

Doug Kearns
In reply to this post by Hugh Sasse
On Fri, Sep 16, 2005 at 04:01:50PM +0100, Hugh Sasse wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Sep 2005, Doug Kearns wrote:

<snip>

> > No, thanks. A simple XML file with .erb extension is exhibiting this
> > behaviour. I may just be misunderstanding the way filetype detection
> > works.
>
> I'm not certain how it works either.  I think there are at least two
> things going on, extension and syntax checking...

I was misreading the documentation... *sigh*

We should be using 'set filetype=eruby' instead of 'setfiletype eruby'.

I'll fix that now.

<snip>

Regards,
Doug
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Re: ANN: New stable release

Hugh Sasse
In reply to this post by Doug Kearns
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005, Doug Kearns wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 16, 2005 at 04:01:50PM +0100, Hugh Sasse wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> brains# vim-ruby-install.rb
>>
>> Possible Vim installation directories:
>>          1) //.vim
>
> Maybe if the user is root we should just offer the system-wide
> directory?
>
> Just out of interest is HOME often set to / for root? It's been a long
> time since I've used anything other than linux where it usually seems to
> be set to /root.

For Solaris, yes.  I don't presently have access to /(Net|Free)BSD/,
but I think DEC/Compaq/HP/%s use / as well.
         Thank you,
         Hugh
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