ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

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ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

A.J.Mechelynck
Hello Vimmers!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bram Moolenaar" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 7:50 PM
Subject: Patch 6.3.085


>
> Patch 6.3.085
> Problem:    Crash in syntax highlighting code. (Marc Espie)
> Solution:   Prevent current_col going past the end of the line.
> Files:     src/syntax.c
[...]

The corresponding executables for W32 are now available.

For 7.0, Bram has sent the files which were missing from yesterday's
nightly, and a 7.00aa.0114 distribution is now available; but I see that a
new snapshot (0115) has been posted and I'm starting a new build roll; the
results should appear in an hour or so if there is no problem.

See http://users.skynet.be/antoine.mechelynck/vim/
- Check the "last change" date at the top of the page
- Click 'My "changes" distro' for 6.3 and/or 'The experimental Vim 7' for
7.00aa
- IMPORTANT: Read the text before downloading.

Happy Vimming!
Tony.


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Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

Bruce Who
Hi, Tony:

        I downloaded and tried vim7.0aa the day before yesterday, and was a little disappointed. I know it's far too late to speak of this topic now, and what I can do now is just to hope next version of vim can be improved.

gvim7.00aa impression
=====================

        balloon_expr is improved, but I still don't know how to use it. I write a script

" a.vim
function! MyBalloonExpr()
  return 'Cursor is at line ' . v:beval_lnum .
  \', column ' . v:beval_col .
  \ ' of file ' .  bufname(v:beval_bufnr) .
  \ ' on word "' . v:beval_text . '"'
endfunction
set bexpr=MyBalloonExpr()
set ballooneval

and then source this file and edit another file, but nothing happen.

    when I open gvim7.00aa, the first empty buffer's name is [No name], it's not translated into my local language as usual. Is this a bug? I just unzip the file to my vim directory instead of overwriting the vim63 directory.


No modern GUI elements
======================

    When I opened the gvim7.0aa, wow, it still looked like the gvim6.3, the same GUI! Yes, I mean *g*Vim not vim. gVim still doesn't look like any other text editors(I think it's unnecessary to refer to 'other text editors' here):

    1) No tabs which list your open buffers along the top or bottom of your screen. Let's call it buf_tabs.

    I know minibufexpl.vim and I'm using it. It simulate the buf_tabs, but not well. we may

      - close the minibuf by <C-W>q accidently
      - when we use :bn and :bp to go through the buffers we also enter the minibuf which is not expected.
      - when we save or modify the current buffer, minibuf is not updated immediately. Only when we swith to another buffer, the '+' mark is added or removed from the buffer's name in the minibuf.
      - if we saved a session one minutes ago, and we open it now, then there is always a warning about minibuf. And after all buffers are loaded, the minibuf is empty.

    In my humble opinion, all these issues are hard to solve just by vim script.

    2)no file explorer window

    we also have filexplorer.vim and I'm using it too. It's not as good as a built-in file explorer if any:

        - I just need this window after gvim is open and keep this window always at the left side of my editor and can hide it when I need. But, yes, I usually close it accidently, :-< . Everytime I open a file by <Enter>, the filexplorer window disaapears and I need open it again! This situation usually happens when I open vim, I need to open several files of a project then.
      - when we use :bn and :bp to go through the buffers we also enter the bufexplorer which is not expected.


    I think these two features are basic elements of modern text editor, and they can help newbies a lot. Why not implement them for gVim?


IDE or text editor?
===================

    I don't know exactly what vim will become, but now it is just a powerful text editor but an IDE. Some of my mates don't use vim because IDEs provide them the convenience of program developing. IDEs' text editor are so weak, but they provide call-tips/debugger/project management,... while vim doesn't.

    As a python programmer, I can only edit .py files with vim. Intellisense doesn't support python, I have used pydiction for about ten minutes and dropped it because it changes isk option. Another pain is that I cannot debug python files within vim itself. Everytime I debug python scripts, I have to open pythonwin and debug it there.

    IMHO, it's the tendency that text editor should become more and more like IDE. the new fad eclipse is something like this. And lately I learn that another popular text-editor UltraEditor is gonna become a IDE called UEeditor, and it seems very close to my ideal texteditor, here are some screenshots:

http://www.ultraedit.com/index.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=13

    class hierachy viewer/tag viewer/project management/template management, .... It astounded me when I knew it. Yes,yes, we have plugin scripts which can do the same thing: taglist.vim, project.tgz, but they can never be used as easily as bulit-in ones.


program language or texteditor?
===============================
    vim scripts becomes much more powerful than ever before. We have list now, so we can kick liblist.vim away. It seems you guys are more interested in developing a powerful programming language than a texteditor. There are some simple things that vim doesn't support, for example, I cannot use vim to convert my file's encoding. I always have to use notepad to convert my mbcs encoded files to utf-8.


Anyway, I'm gonna continue using vim as my texteditor and hope it can be improved in the future. This post may be so long that I should post it in my blog or somewhere.

======= 2005-07-25 06:21:52 Tony Mechelynck wrote: =======

>Hello Vimmers!
>
[...]

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
                       
Best regards,

????????????????Bruce Who
????????????????????2005-07-26

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Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

Bram Moolenaar

Bruce Who wrote:

> Hi, Tony:

Strange to send this to Tony.  He does a lot of things but developing
Vim isn't one of them.

> I downloaded and tried vim7.0aa the day before yesterday, and was a
> little disappointed. I know it's far too late to speak of this topic
> now, and what I can do now is just to hope next version of vim can be
> improved.

From your text it shows you don't understand Vim very well.  I would
suggest to read the help text about the things you want to use Vim for.
Most obvious example where this applies:

> balloon_expr is improved, but I still don't know how to use it.

I use it every day and it works just fine.

> when I open gvim7.00aa, the first empty buffer's name is [No name],
> it's not translated into my local language as usual. Is this a bug? I
> just unzip the file to my vim directory instead of overwriting the
> vim63 directory.

You probably need to install the message translation files in the right
place.

> No modern GUI elements

While other editors concentrate on improving the looks, the work on Vim
aims at people who want to get work done.

> 1) No tabs which list your open buffers along the top or bottom of
> your screen. Let's call it buf_tabs.

I have some ideas about supporting tabs, but I don't know when it gets
implemented.  They require reaching for the mouse, thus they are not all
that useful.

> 2) no file explorer window

Yes there is.  It even supports remote file exploring.  Just edit the
directory.  Besides, the "Open..." item from the menu has the standard
file selector to browse around.

> IDE or text editor?

Text editor.

There may be a number of IDE-like features, but text editing is and will
be the main thing.

> As a python programmer, I can only edit .py files with vim.
> Intellisense doesn't support python, I have used pydiction for about
> ten minutes and dropped it because it changes isk option. Another pain
> is that I cannot debug python files within vim itself. Everytime I
> debug python scripts, I have to open pythonwin and debug it there.

Some kind of intellisense is planned for Vim 7.

> IMHO, it's the tendency that text editor should become more and more
> like IDE. the new fad eclipse is something like this.

Eclipse works well for Java, not much else.  It's a pity it's bulky and
slow.  And makes it difficult to plugin a real editor.

> And lately I learn that another popular text-editor UltraEditor is
> gonna become a IDE called UEeditor, and it seems very close to my
> ideal texteditor, here are some screenshots:
>
> http://www.ultraedit.com/index.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=13

Very nice pictures, but can you still edit text with that thing?  They
do have a good marketing department...

Looks like a "we reinvented the wheel for you!" program.  They even
invented a new "UEStudio '05 project format...

Why didn't they call it the "me too" IDE?

> program language or texteditor?
> ===============================
> vim scripts becomes much more powerful than ever before. We have list
> now, so we can kick liblist.vim away. It seems you guys are more
> interested in developing a powerful programming language than a
> texteditor. There are some simple things that vim doesn't support, for
> example, I cannot use vim to convert my file's encoding. I always have
> to use notepad to convert my mbcs encoded files to utf-8.

You need a powerful script language to write powerful plugins.
Otherwise all the functionality would need to be implemented in C code.

--
No man may purchase alcohol without written consent from his wife.
                [real standing law in Pennsylvania, United States of America]

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        Sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\              Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
 \\\     Buy LOTR 3 and help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF.nl/lotr.html   ///
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Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

Mantas
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 11:40 +0200, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
> > 1) No tabs which list your open buffers along the top or bottom of
> > your screen. Let's call it buf_tabs.
>
> I have some ideas about supporting tabs, but I don't know when it gets
> implemented.  They require reaching for the mouse, thus they are not
> all that useful.

Mouse is bad! using vim I can forget mouse and it's cool! :)
But I thing that tabs is only useful, when you always see what buffers are
opened, like this:

[ buff1 ][ buff2 ][ buff3 ][ buff4 ][ buff5 ]

this can be placed in an second status line or somthing like this..
when you see your buffers listed it is easy to play with commands :bn
:bp :3bn :2bp ...
but when buffers are invisible, complicated to to remeber sequence of
buffers, with :ls command is to dificult..

of course this line can be reachtable with mouse..

--
Mantas

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RE: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

Zdenek Sekera
In reply to this post by A.J.Mechelynck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mantas [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 26 July 2005 14:09
> To: Bram Moolenaar
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0
>
> On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 11:40 +0200, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
> > > 1) No tabs which list your open buffers along the top or bottom of
> > > your screen. Let's call it buf_tabs.
> >
> > I have some ideas about supporting tabs, but I don't know
> when it gets
> > implemented.  They require reaching for the mouse, thus they are not
> > all that useful.
>
> Mouse is bad! using vim I can forget mouse and it's cool! :)
> But I thing that tabs is only useful, when you always see
> what buffers are
> opened, like this:
>
> [ buff1 ][ buff2 ][ buff3 ][ buff4 ][ buff5 ]
>
> this can be placed in an second status line or somthing like this..
> when you see your buffers listed it is easy to play with commands :bn
> :bp :3bn :2bp ...
> but when buffers are invisible, complicated to to remeber sequence of
> buffers, with :ls command is to dificult..
>

No mouse needed:

map ,l :buffers<CR>:b

Have several buffers opened, hit ',l' (no apostrophies),
this will list all buffers and wait for you to type buffer
number as you see list in front of you.
Modify to your liking....

> of course this line can be reachtable with mouse..

No mouse needed for this.

---Zdenek
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Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

A.J.Mechelynck
In reply to this post by Mantas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mantas" <[hidden email]>
To: "Bram Moolenaar" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0
[...]

> Mouse is bad! using vim I can forget mouse and it's cool! :)
> But I thing that tabs is only useful, when you always see what buffers are
> opened, like this:
>
> [ buff1 ][ buff2 ][ buff3 ][ buff4 ][ buff5 ]
>
> this can be placed in an second status line or somthing like this..
> when you see your buffers listed it is easy to play with commands :bn
> :bp :3bn :2bp ...
> but when buffers are invisible, complicated to to remeber sequence of
> buffers, with :ls command is to dificult..
>
> of course this line can be reachtable with mouse..
>
> --
> Mantas

You can tear off the Buffers menu, but of course the torn-off menu has to be
placed where it doesn't hinder your view of the "main" gvim window. There is
also my "poor man's tabbed editing" (:set noea wmh=0 wh=99999) but it lists
only windows, not hidden buffers, and each inactive window still takes up
one line of screen real-estate.

Best regards,
Tony.


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Balloons! [was: Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0]

François Pinard
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
[Bram Moolenar]

> I use [balloon_expr] every day and it works just fine.

I'm curious, and presume we all are: what for? :-)

--
Fran?ois Pinard   http://pinard.progiciels-bpi.ca
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Balloons! [was: Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0]

Bram Moolenaar

Fran?ois -

> > I use [balloon_expr] every day and it works just fine.
>
> I'm curious, and presume we all are: what for? :-)

While debugging with Agide.  The balloon shows the variable value under
the cursor (gdb gets the value, Agide passes it to Vim and Vim shows the
balloon).

- Bram

--
Why is "abbreviation" such a long word?

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        Sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\              Project leader for A-A-P -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
 \\\     Buy LOTR 3 and help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF.nl/lotr.html   ///
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RE: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

Vince Negri (ASL)
In reply to this post by A.J.Mechelynck
> > There are some simple things that vim doesn't support, for
> > example, I cannot use vim to convert my file's encoding. I always have
> > to use notepad to convert my mbcs encoded files to utf-8.
>
I thought one could load the file, then set 'fileencoding' and re-save.
I use this to convert between local 8-bit and UTF-8...






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RE: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

Ron Aaron

On Wed, July 27, 2005 5:54, Vince Negri (ASL) said:
>> > There are some simple things that vim doesn't support, for
>> > example, I cannot use vim to convert my file's encoding. I always have
>> > to use notepad to convert my mbcs encoded files to utf-8.
>>
> I thought one could load the file, then set 'fileencoding' and re-save.
> I use this to convert between local 8-bit and UTF-8...

One need not even set fileencoding:

   : w ++enc=some-other-encoding filename

--
Reva Forth for Linux and Windows --  http://ronware.org/reva/

GPG key fingerprint: 8130 734C 69A3 6542 0853 CB42 3ECF 9259 AD29 415D


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Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

A.J.Mechelynck
In reply to this post by Vince Negri (ASL)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Negri (ASL)" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0


>> > There are some simple things that vim doesn't support, for
>> > example, I cannot use vim to convert my file's encoding. I always have
>> > to use notepad to convert my mbcs encoded files to utf-8.
>>
> I thought one could load the file, then set 'fileencoding' and re-save.
> I use this to convert between local 8-bit and UTF-8...

Yes, the OP wrote a followup: what made his Vim UTF-8 files unrecognied as
UTF-8 by Windows programs was that he had not ":set bomb". With the BOM
present there was no problem.

Best regards,
Tony.


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Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

robert h-2
In reply to this post by Bruce Who
I use Vim off and on on Windows. I use it because it is a really good editor
and not an IDE. I don't use it macro language as I usually find what I want
off the Vim site. However, I really missed a tabbed interface when using it
and so I usually fall back to a simpler editor like SciTE.

If you have the same file multiple times, the answer would be to have the
full path in the title bar. That is the way almost all the editors I have
used work and I have not gotten confused over it.

If Vim had a tabbed interface I would probably not use any other editor and
I would probably start learning its macro language to become a power user.

Everyone has their wants and needs for Vim, I think it would be perfect with
a tabbed interface.

My .02

Robert



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Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0

A.J.Mechelynck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: ANN: W32 executables for 6.3 and 7.0


>I use Vim off and on on Windows. I use it because it is a really good
>editor
> and not an IDE. I don't use it macro language as I usually find what I
> want
> off the Vim site. However, I really missed a tabbed interface when using
> it
> and so I usually fall back to a simpler editor like SciTE.
>
> If you have the same file multiple times, the answer would be to have the
> full path in the title bar. That is the way almost all the editors I have
> used work and I have not gotten confused over it.

There can be only one title bar. Current versions of Vim (console or GUI)
for Windows show on the titlebar: the filename of the current file, followed
by its directory name in parentheses, followed by the program name (VIM,
GVIM, etc.; actually the "server" name as per +clientserver). All the
pathfilename info for the current file is there, if there is space. This
means that when editing several files in split windows, the title bar
changes whenever you change windows. I suppose some versions of Vim for
Unix, and probably all GUI versions, do it too, but I haven't seen them all.

> If Vim had a tabbed interface I would probably not use any other editor
> and
> I would probably start learning its macro language to become a power user.
>
> Everyone has their wants and needs for Vim, I think it would be perfect
> with
> a tabbed interface.
>
> My .02
>
> Robert

Have you tried "Rolodex Vim"? ":set noequalalways winminheight=0
winheight=99999" does it. All windows other than the current one are reduced
to a status line and nothing else. Think of these status lines (above and
below the current window) as of the tabs of a Rolodex (above and below the
current page).

Best regards,
Tony.