Bug with gU and German sharp s?

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Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Jürgen Krämer

Hi,

can anybody confirm this misbehaviour in VIM 7.0:

Starting

  gvim -u NONE -U NONE

and typing

  iStraßen<esc>0gUe

results in

  STRASSEn

(note the lower case 'n'). The same is true for

  iStraßen<esc>0veU

It seems that after converting the sharp s to 'SS' VIM does not account
for the now longer word and selection and leaves one character in lower
case for every sharp s it converted. Another example:

  iAußenstraßenschilder<esc>0gUe

leaves two lower case letters at the end of

  AUSSENSTRASSENSCHILDer

This happens on a German Windows XP with VIM 7.0 (patches 1-17 applied).

Regards,
Jürgen

--
Jürgen Krämer                              Softwareentwicklung
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Hinteres Öschle 2                          Tel: +49 / 74 61 / 93 53 - 15
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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Mathias Michaelis
Hi Jürgen

> can anybody confirm this misbehaviour in VIM 7.0:
>
> Starting
>
>   gvim -u NONE -U NONE
>
> and typing
>
>   iStraßen<esc>0gUe
>
> results in
>
>   STRASSEn
>
In Windows XP with a console vim-7.0.017 in a cmd window I can
confirm this. It happens also with iStraßen<esc>0gU$.

Best regards
Mathias
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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Gerhard Siegesmund
> In Windows XP with a console vim-7.0.017 in a cmd window I can
> confirm this. It happens also with iStraßen<esc>0gU$.

Confirm for Linux Debian unstable

VIM - Vi IMproved 7.0 (2006 May 7, compiled May 31 2006 17:44:47)
Included patches: 1-17

Greetings

--
cu
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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Bertram Scharpf
In reply to this post by Jürgen Krämer
Hi,

Am Donnerstag, 08. Jun 2006, 13:56:35 +0200 schrieb Jürgen Krämer:

> can anybody confirm this misbehaviour in VIM 7.0:
> [...] typing
>
>   iStraßen<esc>0gUe
>
> results in
>
>   STRASSEn
>
> (note the lower case 'n').

Even `gUU' works.

  VIM - Vi IMproved 7.0 (2006 May 7, compiled May 28 2006 11:46:11)
  Included patches: 1-17
  Modified by Gentoo-7.0.17
  [...]

Typing `oxßy<esc>gUU':

  XSSy

Is there any way to tell Vim to leave the `ß' as it was?

Bertram


--
Bertram Scharpf
Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
http://www.bertram-scharpf.de
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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Mikołaj Machowski
Dnia niedziela, 11 czerwca 2006 15:57, Bertram Scharpf napisał:
> Is there any way to tell Vim to leave the `ß' as it was?

Change encoding? In latin2 (where ß also exists) it is not
changed into SS but IMO this is bug.

m.

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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Bram Moolenaar
In reply to this post by Jürgen Krämer

Jürgen Krämer wrote:

> can anybody confirm this misbehaviour in VIM 7.0:
>
> Starting
>
>   gvim -u NONE -U NONE
>
> and typing
>
>   iStraßen<esc>0gUe
>
> results in
>
>   STRASSEn
>
> (note the lower case 'n'). The same is true for
>
>   iStraßen<esc>0veU
>
> It seems that after converting the sharp s to 'SS' VIM does not account
> for the now longer word and selection and leaves one character in lower
> case for every sharp s it converted. Another example:
>
>   iAußenstraßenschilder<esc>0gUe
>
> leaves two lower case letters at the end of
>
>   AUSSENSTRASSENSCHILDer
>
> This happens on a German Windows XP with VIM 7.0 (patches 1-17 applied).

I see the problem.  I'll put it in the todo list.

--
Did you hear about the new 3 million dollar West Virginia State Lottery?
The winner gets 3 dollars a year for a million years.

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\        download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Jürgen Krämer

Hi,

Bram Moolenaar wrote:

>
> Jürgen Krämer wrote:
>
>> can anybody confirm this misbehaviour in VIM 7.0:
>>
>> Starting
>>
>>   gvim -u NONE -U NONE
>>
>> and typing
>>
>>   iStraßen<esc>0gUe
>>
>> results in
>>
>>   STRASSEn
>
> I see the problem.  I'll put it in the todo list.

thanks.

Regards,
Jürgen

--
Jürgen Krämer                              Softwareentwicklung
HABEL GmbH & Co. KG                        mailto:[hidden email]
Hinteres Öschle 2                          Tel: +49 / 74 61 / 93 53 - 15
78604 Rietheim-Weilheim                    Fax: +49 / 74 61 / 93 53 - 99
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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

martin kraegeloh
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
hmm, well ... this is as buggy as the java String.toUpperCase() method  ;-)

oracle for example does it right and leaves the sharp s as it is -
because there is no upper case variant of it.
SQL> select upper('straße') from dual;

UPPER('
-------
STRAßE

my 2 cents,

martin

Bram Moolenaar wrote:

>Jürgen Krämer wrote:
>
>  
>
>>can anybody confirm this misbehaviour in VIM 7.0:
>>
>>Starting
>>
>>  gvim -u NONE -U NONE
>>
>>and typing
>>
>>  iStraßen<esc>0gUe
>>
>>results in
>>
>>  STRASSEn
>>
>>(note the lower case 'n'). The same is true for
>>
>>  iStraßen<esc>0veU
>>
>>It seems that after converting the sharp s to 'SS' VIM does not account
>>for the now longer word and selection and leaves one character in lower
>>case for every sharp s it converted. Another example:
>>
>>  iAußenstraßenschilder<esc>0gUe
>>
>>leaves two lower case letters at the end of
>>
>>  AUSSENSTRASSENSCHILDer
>>
>>This happens on a German Windows XP with VIM 7.0 (patches 1-17 applied).
>>    
>>
>
>I see the problem.  I'll put it in the todo list.
>
>  
>


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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Bram Moolenaar

Martin Kraegeloh wrote:

> hmm, well ... this is as buggy as the java String.toUpperCase() method  ;-)
>
> oracle for example does it right and leaves the sharp s as it is -
> because there is no upper case variant of it.

I'll leave it up to language specialists to decide whether making straße
uppercase should result in STRAßE or STRASSE.  I thought it was STRASSE.

Logically it's much easier to use STRAßE, because the length doesn't
change and the reverse operation works.  STRASSE made lower case is
strasse...

--
hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
10E. You start counting in hex.

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\        download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Christian Ebert
* Bram Moolenaar on Friday, June 16, 2006 at 17:24:20 +0200:
> I'll leave it up to language specialists to decide whether making straße
> uppercase should result in STRAßE or STRASSE.  I thought it was STRASSE.

Historic: STRASZE
Now: STRASSE

See: <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versal-Eszett>

> Logically it's much easier to use STRAßE, because the length doesn't
> change and the reverse operation works.  STRASSE made lower case is
> strasse...

The Swiss are more logic (they write "Strasse") but also more
prone to confusion: "Ich trinke Alkohol in Massen." -- which
might mean "I drink alcohol in moderation" or "I drink alcohol
galore".

c
--
_B A U S T E L L E N_ lesen!  --->> <http://www.blacktrash.org/baustellen.html>
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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Mikołaj Machowski
In reply to this post by martin kraegeloh
Dnia piątek, 16 czerwca 2006 16:47, martin kraegeloh napisał:
> hmm, well ... this is as buggy as the java String.toUpperCase() method
> ;-)
>
> oracle for example does it right and leaves the sharp s as it is -
> because there is no upper case variant of it.

I was thought that capital version of ß is SS...

m.

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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Mikołaj Machowski
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
Dnia piątek, 16 czerwca 2006 13:34, Bram Moolenaar napisał:
>
> I see the problem.  I'll put it in the todo list.

Sub-problem with ß. In latin2 'encoding' (where ß also exists) it isn't
changed to SS. I think behaviour should be the same for all encodings.

m.

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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

A.J.Mechelynck
In reply to this post by Christian Ebert
Christian Ebert wrote:

> * Bram Moolenaar on Friday, June 16, 2006 at 17:24:20 +0200:
>  
>> I'll leave it up to language specialists to decide whether making straße
>> uppercase should result in STRAßE or STRASSE.  I thought it was STRASSE.
>>    
>
> Historic: STRASZE
> Now: STRASSE
>
> See: <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versal-Eszett>
>
>  
>> Logically it's much easier to use STRAßE, because the length doesn't
>> change and the reverse operation works.  STRASSE made lower case is
>> strasse...
>>    
>
> The Swiss are more logic (they write "Strasse") but also more
> prone to confusion: "Ich trinke Alkohol in Massen." -- which
> might mean "I drink alcohol in moderation" or "I drink alcohol
> galore".
>
> c
>  
:-) Maß (measure) vs. Masse (mass).

Some say the reason why the Swiss don't use the eszet anymore (except,
maybe, in archaic or pseudo-archaic lettering) is that they have no room
for it on the QWERTZ keyboards of their Franco-Italo-German typewriters.
I don't know if it is true.


Best regards,
Tony.
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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

A.J.Mechelynck
In reply to this post by Mikołaj Machowski
Mikolaj Machowski wrote:

> Dnia piątek, 16 czerwca 2006 13:34, Bram Moolenaar napisał:
>> I see the problem.  I'll put it in the todo list.
>
> Sub-problem with ß. In latin2 'encoding' (where ß also exists) it isn't
> changed to SS. I think behaviour should be the same for all encodings.
>
> m.
>
>
>

In UTF-8 encoding, ~ over an ß in Vim doesn't change it, which IMHO is
an error.

In a Swiss locale (including Liechtenstein), the eszet "ß" is not used.
I don't know if this is related to what you're saying about latin1 vs.
latin2.

In other German-language locales:

- ss may be used instead of ß if the latter is unavailable, e.g., on a
typewriter with no ß glyph
- the uppercase form of ß is SS
- the lowercase form of SS is ß after a long vowel, ss otherwise
according to the latest -- and still controversial -- reform of German
orthography, which is supposed to be official since 1 August 1998 and
mandatory starting 1 August 2006. I've heard that many German speakers
and German-language publishers still cling to the "older" spelling
(established ca. 1901).

IIUC, the uppercase form of ß was SZ before that "older" reform; hence
the name "eszet". In Fraktur or black-letter fonts, the ß glyph is a
ligature consisting of a long s and a z, instead of long s + short s as
in Roman fonts. (The "long s" looks like an f without the horizontal bar.)


Best regards,
Tony.
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Re: Bug with gU and German sharp s?

Bertram Scharpf
In reply to this post by Christian Ebert
Hi,

Am Freitag, 16. Jun 2006, 18:47:32 +0200 schrieb Christian Ebert:
> * Bram Moolenaar on Friday, June 16, 2006 at 17:24:20 +0200:
> > I'll leave it up to language specialists to decide whether making straße
> > uppercase should result in STRAßE or STRASSE.  I thought it was STRASSE.
>
> Historic: STRASZE
> Now: STRASSE
>
> See: <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versal-Eszett>

The TeX EC fonts (Cork or T1 encoding) indeed have an upper
case ligature "SS" that is ONE letter.

I'm not very lucky about that for the reasons mentioned in
the Wikipedia article.

Bertram


--
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Stuttgart, Deutschland/Germany
http://www.bertram-scharpf.de