Fwd: VIM 7.1 compilation error

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Fwd: VIM 7.1 compilation error

Edward L. Fox
Hi Bram,

Sorry for sending mail in HTML format, as the following content has some images to display.

Do you think we should deprecate the build-in Hangul supporting since the next version of VIM? So far as I know, the Hangul supporting conflicted with XIM module, which is more useful for Asian users. That's why the official Vim pre-built binary never enable this option. Some Korean users also noticed that the latest sources couldn't be built with this option enabled. I think all the users will use input method later, so I'd like to disable the "Hangul automata" from now on.

And if possible, we could also supply a Hangul input method by using the keymap mechanism, just like the kana (Japanese letters) keymap ported by me. I know nothing about Korean so I hope any Korean friend could help me with this issue.


Best regards,

Edward L. Fox

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kiwon Um <[hidden email]>
Date: Aug 3, 2007 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: VIM 7.1 compilation error
To: "Edward L. Fox" <[hidden email]>

Hi Edward.
Thanks for reply.

Edward L. Fox wrote:
Hi Kiwon,

On 8/3/07, [hidden email] [hidden email] wrote:
  
Thanks Edward.

It works just in compiling manner, not actual.
Hangul inputting is incorrect, all is shown as broken characters.
    
Sorry but I know nothing about Hangul input. Could you give me a brief
introduction of the basic usage of Hangul input? That is, how do I set
up the Hangul input and what result is expected? Then I could do some
basic debugging about this problem.

Any way, as the Vim build-in Hangul input conflicts with XIM
interface, I think you'd better enable XIM interface rather than
Hangul interface, then you could use some more powerful input method
engine such as SCIM instead.
  
I append two figures to compare between with "--enable-hangulinput" option and without. (I just captured two screen shots.)
In good case, i.e. without "--enable-hangulinput"option, the result is as follow:
good(In this case, I used "SCIM")
In bad case, i.e. with that option, the result is as follow:
bad
VIM with SCIM is works quite well.
So.. just in my opinion, the next version of VIM might not need to have even that configure option.
It rather makes some user, like me, confused.

  
By the way, what does the "bottom-posting or interlaced-posting" mean?
Is it "Reply to Author"?
    
FYI

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
  
Like this style, what I'm writing down, huh? :-)

  
Sorry for bothering you.  I'm just first time here.
    
Just feel free to post any thing here. All people here are very
friendly. But you should obey the basic rules and the principles here.
For example, bottom-posting. :-)
  
I didn't know if that was really rule.
Anyhow I know now. :-)
  
Best regards,
Kiwon Um
[...]
    
Cheers,

Edward L. Fox
  
Thanks again.

Best regards,
Kiwon Um


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Re: Fwd: VIM 7.1 compilation error

Edward L. Fox

Hi Shawn Kim,

On 8/3/07, Shawn Kim <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
> In those system, I don't seem to have many choices.
> I MUST compile vim enabling hangulinput feature and then use it to
> type in Hangul.
> It would never be enough to stress the necessity and the importance of
> that feature for Koreans.
> I would be devastated if that feature is to removed :'O

OK, I see. But I'm still wondered that could this feature be
implemented as a keymap? Like this:

1. :set keymap=kana

2. Type "ohayougozaimasu" will produce:

おはようございます。

If we could implement the Hangul input as a keymap, we can simply drop
the Hangul automata without any difficulty then.

>
> Regards,
> Shawn.
>
> P.S. Personally, using XIM with vim is kind of confusing.
> If you were typing Hangul in input mode, and then you escape from that
> mode by pressing upon ESC,
> XIM is still in Hangul input mode. So, any of your comands won't work
> until you switch to English input mode by
> pressing Shift+Space. It is very unconvinient and confusing.
> As it seems that I can seem to control XIM out of it, like sending
> signal or something, for me,
> it is just more appreciated using hangulinput feature. :-)

Just type ":help imactivatekey" and read this part of the manual,
maybe it's useful for you. :-)

>
> [...]


In peace,

Edward L. Fox

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RE: Fwd: VIM 7.1 compilation error

Ben Peterson-2

Hi,

  Wouldn't hangul be a very big keymap?  If the keymap was for individual jamo it would be manageable but I'm not sure how vim would then combine the jamo.  If it is for all hangul characters it will be very large -- unless I am missing something.

  On the other hand, it should also be relatively easy to generate the keymap automatically...

  Benjamin

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Edward L. Fox
Sent: 03 August 2007 16:23
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Bram Moolenaar; vim-dev; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Fwd: VIM 7.1 compilation error


Hi Shawn Kim,

On 8/3/07, Shawn Kim <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
> In those system, I don't seem to have many choices.
> I MUST compile vim enabling hangulinput feature and then use it to
> type in Hangul.
> It would never be enough to stress the necessity and the importance of
> that feature for Koreans.
> I would be devastated if that feature is to removed :'O

OK, I see. But I'm still wondered that could this feature be
implemented as a keymap? Like this:

1. :set keymap=kana

2. Type "ohayougozaimasu" will produce:

おはようございます。

If we could implement the Hangul input as a keymap, we can simply drop
the Hangul automata without any difficulty then.

>
> Regards,
> Shawn.
>
> P.S. Personally, using XIM with vim is kind of confusing.
> If you were typing Hangul in input mode, and then you escape from that
> mode by pressing upon ESC,
> XIM is still in Hangul input mode. So, any of your comands won't work
> until you switch to English input mode by
> pressing Shift+Space. It is very unconvinient and confusing.
> As it seems that I can seem to control XIM out of it, like sending
> signal or something, for me,
> it is just more appreciated using hangulinput feature. :-)

Just type ":help imactivatekey" and read this part of the manual,
maybe it's useful for you. :-)

>
> [...]


In peace,

Edward L. Fox

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Re: Fwd: VIM 7.1 compilation error

Kim Shawn

Ben Peterson wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   Wouldn't hangul be a very big keymap?  If the keymap was for individual jamo it would be manageable but I'm not sure how vim would then combine the jamo.  If it is for all hangul characters it will be very large -- unless I am missing something.
>
>   On the other hand, it should also be relatively easy to generate the keymap automatically...
>
>   Benjamin
>
>  
Replying to all,

Hi, Benjamin,

Yes, It is a huge set of letters.
There are more than 10,000 letters that can possibly be made up, even
excluding obsoleted ones.

And there is a criticism I found about that method :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_Romanization_of_Korean#Criticism

Thanks for your comment

Shawn.


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RE: Fwd: VIM 7.1 compilation error

Ben Peterson-2


Hi,

  True, one would have to make two separate attempts, one for old-style
and one for new-style Romanization.  

  There are other problems too, now that I think about it:

  1)  Some Korean syllables have different final consonants when written
but not when spoken.  It is difficult to express this in romanization.
  2) Hundreds of mappings would start the same way as each other (e.g.
Se, Set, Seok, Seo, Seot, Seok etc) which might make entering them via
the mapping system a bit odd (would it pick 'Se' if you hesitated part
of the way through typing 'Seoul'?)

  3) As you know, neither romanization system is unambiguous because it
is sometimes impossible to tell where a syllable ends.  Normally you
wouldn't want to type 'Se-o-ul', but if you did, how would the keymap
tell it apart from 'Seo-ul'?  I think you'd need to actually type the
hyphens or something.

  Hm, this actually sounds very very hard :(

 Still I might generating a keymap (from the composed hangul character
area of the Unicode charts) over the weekend and see what happens.

  Benjamin


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Shawn Kim
Sent: 03 August 2007 17:37
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]; Bram Moolenaar; vim-dev;
[hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Fwd: VIM 7.1 compilation error


Ben Peterson wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   Wouldn't hangul be a very big keymap?  If the keymap was for
individual jamo it would be manageable but I'm not sure how vim would
then combine the jamo.  If it is for all hangul characters it will be
very large -- unless I am missing something.
>
>   On the other hand, it should also be relatively easy to generate the
keymap automatically...
>
>   Benjamin
>
>  
Replying to all,

Hi, Benjamin,

Yes, It is a huge set of letters.
There are more than 10,000 letters that can possibly be made up, even
excluding obsoleted ones.

And there is a criticism I found about that method :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revised_Romanization_of_Korean#Criticism

Thanks for your comment

Shawn.




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Re: Fwd: VIM 7.1 compilation error

Bram Moolenaar
In reply to this post by Edward L. Fox


Edward L. Fox wrote:

> Sorry for sending mail in HTML format, as the following content has some
> images to display.
>
> Do you think we should deprecate the build-in Hangul supporting since the
> next version of VIM? So far as I know, the Hangul supporting conflicted with
> XIM module, which is more useful for Asian users. That's why the official
> Vim pre-built binary never enable this option. Some Korean users also
> noticed that the latest sources couldn't be built with this option enabled.
> I think all the users will use input method later, so I'd like to disable
> the "Hangul automata" from now on.
>
> And if possible, we could also supply a Hangul input method by using the
> keymap mechanism, just like the kana (Japanese letters) keymap ported by me.
> I know nothing about Korean so I hope any Korean friend could help me with
> this issue.

I hesitate removing the Hangul support without knowing for sure that it
is not needed.  Browsing through the messages I do see remarks that it
might still be useful to a few people.

Perhaps the Hangul support can be changed to also work for UTF-8?

The compilation error is easy to fix: Don't define FEAT_XFONTSET when
using GTK2.

--
From "know your smileys":
 :-) Funny
 |-) Funny Oriental
 (-: Funny Australian

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\        download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
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