Is hoisting working for everyone?

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Is hoisting working for everyone?

Noel Henson
How has the new hoisting method been working for everyone?

Noel

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Re: Is hoisting working for everyone?

John Porubek
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Noel Henson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> How has the new hoisting method been working for everyone?
>
> Noel
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Noel Henson
>  www.noels-lab.com     Chips, firmware and embedded systems
>  www.vimoutliner.org   Work fast. Think well.
>
> _______________________________________________
> VimOutliner mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo
>

Well, since you asked, not very well! However, before I get into the
details, let me first say that I really appreciate the effort. Like
other users have commented, I didn't really like or trust the previous
hoisting solution, so I rarely used it. This despite the fact that
hoisting was a feature I used all the time in Ready!, the program that
introduced me to the usefulness of outlining programs.

My observations are based on using VimOutliner in Windows XP. I also
use VimOutliner in Linux on my Kubuntu machine, but I haven't had a
chance to try the new hoisting stuff there yet. I'm using Vim 7.2 and
VimOutliner 0.3.4 (I think - that's what the vo_readme.txt file says).
I put vo_newhoist.vim in "C:\Program Files\Vim\vimfiles\plugins" where
the old vo_hoist.vim was. Note that the subdirectory is "plugins" with
an "s". There is also a "plugin" subdirectory where most standard Vim
plugins get put. I don't recall how this split came about during the
original install, and it could probably be fixed (assuming one thinks
it's broken), but I decided I liked keeping my VO plugins separate. I
also put vo_smartpaste.vim in the plugins directory. BTW, Noel, in the
previous thread you said you would attach the smartpaste script, but
apparently forgot. I found a copy (latest?) in an earlier post.

When I type ,,hh in an *.otl file, the line _below_ the one I'm on
moves all the way to the left and the lines above it all have "~n"
prepended to them, where n is the outline level I started from. The
lines below all have "~" prepended. I suspect the main issue here is
that folding is not working properly. I tried various combinations of
folding commands on the hoisted file (like a monkey banging on a
keyboard), but nothing seemed to change. Typing ,,hd usually undid the
hoisting. However, Vim hung (something I've never seen before) when I
tried hoisting the last section at the same level as the others I had
hoisted. I just re-read your message announcing the new hoisting
method and added a blank line above and two blank lines below my
outline as you described under "Notes". Now ,,hd works on the last
section, too. However, ,,hd still messes up occasionally, but I don't
want to bury you in details.

One important observation - a ,,hh followed by a ,,hd with no other
action marks the file as altered. I don't know if this is a
consequence of what ever else is wrong with my setup, but I think it's
important that the file not be marked as altered by a simple
hoist/dehoist.

I'm not sure how helpful this info. will be in debugging the problem,
but I'd be happy to try anything else you might think would be useful.
I'd REALLY like to get hoisting working!
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Re: Is hoisting working for everyone?

Noel Henson
On Tuesday 29 September 2009, jporubek wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Noel Henson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > How has the new hoisting method been working for everyone?
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > --
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Noel Henson
> >  www.noels-lab.com     Chips, firmware and embedded systems
> >  www.vimoutliner.org   Work fast. Think well.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VimOutliner mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> Well, since you asked, not very well! However, before I get into the
> details, let me first say that I really appreciate the effort. Like
> other users have commented, I didn't really like or trust the previous
> hoisting solution, so I rarely used it. This despite the fact that
> hoisting was a feature I used all the time in Ready!, the program that
> introduced me to the usefulness of outlining programs.
>
> My observations are based on using VimOutliner in Windows XP. I also
> use VimOutliner in Linux on my Kubuntu machine, but I haven't had a
> chance to try the new hoisting stuff there yet. I'm using Vim 7.2 and
> VimOutliner 0.3.4 (I think - that's what the vo_readme.txt file says).
> I put vo_newhoist.vim in "C:\Program Files\Vim\vimfiles\plugins" where
> the old vo_hoist.vim was. Note that the subdirectory is "plugins" with
> an "s". There is also a "plugin" subdirectory where most standard Vim
> plugins get put. I don't recall how this split came about during the
> original install, and it could probably be fixed (assuming one thinks
> it's broken), but I decided I liked keeping my VO plugins separate. I
> also put vo_smartpaste.vim in the plugins directory. BTW, Noel, in the
> previous thread you said you would attach the smartpaste script, but
> apparently forgot. I found a copy (latest?) in an earlier post.
>
> When I type ,,hh in an *.otl file, the line _below_ the one I'm on
> moves all the way to the left and the lines above it all have "~n"
> prepended to them, where n is the outline level I started from. The
> lines below all have "~" prepended. I suspect the main issue here is
> that folding is not working properly. I tried various combinations of
> folding commands on the hoisted file (like a monkey banging on a
> keyboard), but nothing seemed to change. Typing ,,hd usually undid the
> hoisting. However, Vim hung (something I've never seen before) when I
> tried hoisting the last section at the same level as the others I had
> hoisted. I just re-read your message announcing the new hoisting
> method and added a blank line above and two blank lines below my
> outline as you described under "Notes". Now ,,hd works on the last
> section, too. However, ,,hd still messes up occasionally, but I don't
> want to bury you in details.
>
> One important observation - a ,,hh followed by a ,,hd with no other
> action marks the file as altered. I don't know if this is a
> consequence of what ever else is wrong with my setup, but I think it's
> important that the file not be marked as altered by a simple
> hoist/dehoist.
>
> I'm not sure how helpful this info. will be in debugging the problem,
> but I'd be happy to try anything else you might think would be useful.
> I'd REALLY like to get hoisting working!
> _______________________________________________
> VimOutliner mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

Thanks for the feedback. I've not seen vim hang at all on my end; but
I don't use VO on Windows, just Linux. I'll see if I can get set up for
testing on Windows (yuk). I'll see what I can do about the other issues as
well.

Noel

--

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  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

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Re: Is hoisting working for everyone?

Noel Henson
In reply to this post by John Porubek
On Tuesday 29 September 2009, jporubek wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Noel Henson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > How has the new hoisting method been working for everyone?
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > --
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Noel Henson
> >  www.noels-lab.com     Chips, firmware and embedded systems
> >  www.vimoutliner.org   Work fast. Think well.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VimOutliner mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> Well, since you asked, not very well! However, before I get into the
> details, let me first say that I really appreciate the effort. Like
> other users have commented, I didn't really like or trust the previous
> hoisting solution, so I rarely used it. This despite the fact that
> hoisting was a feature I used all the time in Ready!, the program that
> introduced me to the usefulness of outlining programs.
>
> My observations are based on using VimOutliner in Windows XP. I also
> use VimOutliner in Linux on my Kubuntu machine, but I haven't had a
> chance to try the new hoisting stuff there yet. I'm using Vim 7.2 and
> VimOutliner 0.3.4 (I think - that's what the vo_readme.txt file says).
> I put vo_newhoist.vim in "C:\Program Files\Vim\vimfiles\plugins" where
> the old vo_hoist.vim was. Note that the subdirectory is "plugins" with
> an "s". There is also a "plugin" subdirectory where most standard Vim
> plugins get put. I don't recall how this split came about during the
> original install, and it could probably be fixed (assuming one thinks
> it's broken), but I decided I liked keeping my VO plugins separate. I
> also put vo_smartpaste.vim in the plugins directory. BTW, Noel, in the
> previous thread you said you would attach the smartpaste script, but
> apparently forgot. I found a copy (latest?) in an earlier post.
>
> When I type ,,hh in an *.otl file, the line _below_ the one I'm on
> moves all the way to the left and the lines above it all have "~n"
> prepended to them, where n is the outline level I started from. The
> lines below all have "~" prepended. I suspect the main issue here is
> that folding is not working properly. I tried various combinations of
> folding commands on the hoisted file (like a monkey banging on a
> keyboard), but nothing seemed to change. Typing ,,hd usually undid the
> hoisting. However, Vim hung (something I've never seen before) when I
> tried hoisting the last section at the same level as the others I had
> hoisted. I just re-read your message announcing the new hoisting
> method and added a blank line above and two blank lines below my
> outline as you described under "Notes". Now ,,hd works on the last
> section, too. However, ,,hd still messes up occasionally, but I don't
> want to bury you in details.
>
> One important observation - a ,,hh followed by a ,,hd with no other
> action marks the file as altered. I don't know if this is a
> consequence of what ever else is wrong with my setup, but I think it's
> important that the file not be marked as altered by a simple
> hoist/dehoist.
>
> I'm not sure how helpful this info. will be in debugging the problem,
> but I'd be happy to try anything else you might think would be useful.
> I'd REALLY like to get hoisting working!
> _______________________________________________
> VimOutliner mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo


--

------------------------------------------------------------------
  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

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Re: Is hoisting working for everyone?

John Porubek
In reply to this post by Noel Henson
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Noel Henson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks for the feedback. I've not seen vim hang at all on my end; but
> I don't use VO on Windows, just Linux. I'll see if I can get set up for
> testing on Windows (yuk). I'll see what I can do about the other issues as
> well.

Your welcome. I want to reiterate that the hang problem disappeared
when I added two blank lines to the end of my outline.

I don't know why running the new scripts on Windows should be a
problem. Vim takes care of the hard part. In the past, the main issues
I've encountered usually have to do with spaces in file or folder
names. In particular, the "Program Files" subdirectory is often
problematic. However, I can understand your reluctance in going back
to Windows if Linux is your normal working environment. Win XP isn't
too bad, but it may be the last Microsoft OS I buy. I've managed to
avoid Vista except for my wife's laptop. If only I'd bought it for her
a few weeks earlier, it would have come with XP!

Meanwhile, I'll set up VimOutliner in the Ubuntu partition of my
Thinkpad. I've been meaning to do that anyways. I'll let you know how
the new hoisting stuff works there.

Thanks for all your efforts.

--John
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Re: Is hoisting working for everyone?

John Porubek
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM, John Porubek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Meanwhile, I'll set up VimOutliner in the Ubuntu partition of my
> Thinkpad. I've been meaning to do that anyways. I'll let you know how
> the new hoisting stuff works there.
>

Well, I got VO up and running under Ubuntu and I've got good news and
bad news. The good news is that, Noel, you don't have to bother
setting up a Windows test bed. The bad news is, of course, that the
new hoisting script is not working under Linux in exactly the same way
as it was under Windows.

Let me know if I can help in figuring out what's different between
your setup and mine.

--John
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Re: Is hoisting working for everyone?

John Porubek
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 11:23 AM, John Porubek <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM, John Porubek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Meanwhile, I'll set up VimOutliner in the Ubuntu partition of my
>> Thinkpad. I've been meaning to do that anyways. I'll let you know how
>> the new hoisting stuff works there.
>>
>
> Well, I got VO up and running under Ubuntu and I've got good news and
> bad news. The good news is that, Noel, you don't have to bother
> setting up a Windows test bed. The bad news is, of course, that the
> new hoisting script is not working under Linux in exactly the same way
> as it was under Windows.
>
> Let me know if I can help in figuring out what's different between
> your setup and mine.
>
> --John
>

Noel,

I haven't heard anything further from you. I know you're busy with all
the other things going on with VO. You'd think that since I lived
without hoisting for so long, what would be the big deal about not
getting your new method working? But you got my hopes up!

I could send you the results of running :scrip[tnames] on all my
instances of VO, all of which exhibit the same symptoms when I try to
use your new hoisting method. Or, alternately, you could send me your
"script" results so that I could compare them with mine. There must be
some difference between your Vim environment and mine which is causing
the different behavior. Can you think of any other diagnostic measures
I could try? Are you running a modified Vim (recompiled from source)?
I'm not.

Thanks,

--John
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Re: Is hoisting working for everyone?

Noel Henson
On Friday 16 October 2009, John Porubek wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 11:23 AM, John Porubek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM, John Porubek <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> >> Meanwhile, I'll set up VimOutliner in the Ubuntu partition of my
> >> Thinkpad. I've been meaning to do that anyways. I'll let you know how
> >> the new hoisting stuff works there.
> >
> > Well, I got VO up and running under Ubuntu and I've got good news and
> > bad news. The good news is that, Noel, you don't have to bother
> > setting up a Windows test bed. The bad news is, of course, that the
> > new hoisting script is not working under Linux in exactly the same way
> > as it was under Windows.
> >
> > Let me know if I can help in figuring out what's different between
> > your setup and mine.
> >
> > --John
>
> Noel,
>
> I haven't heard anything further from you. I know you're busy with all
> the other things going on with VO. You'd think that since I lived
> without hoisting for so long, what would be the big deal about not
> getting your new method working? But you got my hopes up!
>
> I could send you the results of running :scrip[tnames] on all my
> instances of VO, all of which exhibit the same symptoms when I try to
> use your new hoisting method. Or, alternately, you could send me your
> "script" results so that I could compare them with mine. There must be
> some difference between your Vim environment and mine which is causing
> the different behavior. Can you think of any other diagnostic measures
> I could try? Are you running a modified Vim (recompiled from source)?
> I'm not.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --John

John,

Please send along the additional information. I found a few bugs in the
script and I'm running a heavily modified Vim. I have just installed
a recent (7.2.250), unmodified version.

Thanks for the feedback and assist,

Noel

--

------------------------------------------------------------------
  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

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Re: Is hoisting working for everyone?

John Porubek
On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Noel Henson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Please send along the additional information. I found a few bugs in the
> script and I'm running a heavily modified Vim. I have just installed
> a recent (7.2.250), unmodified version.
>

Noel,

Sorry for the delay in getting my configuration info. back to you. I
noticed some weirdness in the scripts being loaded (e.g. both my
modified and the original ftdetect/vo_base.vim were being loaded) and
wanted to make sure that wasn't the cause of my hoisting problem. It
wasn't. I'll send a copy of the list of scripts loaded to you
off-list.

Any progress in stomping the bugs in your script? How did the your
script work with an unmodified version of Vim?

Thanks for your help,

--John
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Re: Is hoisting working for everyone?

Noel Henson
On Tuesday 20 October 2009, John Porubek wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Noel Henson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Please send along the additional information. I found a few bugs in
> > the script and I'm running a heavily modified Vim. I have just
> > installed a recent (7.2.250), unmodified version.
>
> Noel,
>
> Sorry for the delay in getting my configuration info. back to you. I
> noticed some weirdness in the scripts being loaded (e.g. both my
> modified and the original ftdetect/vo_base.vim were being loaded) and
> wanted to make sure that wasn't the cause of my hoisting problem. It
> wasn't. I'll send a copy of the list of scripts loaded to you
> off-list.
>
> Any progress in stomping the bugs in your script? How did the your
> script work with an unmodified version of Vim?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> --John
> _______________________________________________
> VimOutliner mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo

I should have something for you soon.

Noel


--

------------------------------------------------------------------
  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

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