Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

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Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

Renato Fabbri
Vim is the right tool to write (and sometimes to read as well).

??

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Re: Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

Shlomi Fish-2
Hi,

On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 16:19:30 -0700 (PDT)
Renato Fabbri <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Vim is the right tool to write (and sometimes to read as well).
>

I don't understand. Also see
http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/resources/editors-and-IDEs/ for a list of
some alternatives.

> ??
>



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Re: Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

arocker
In reply to this post by Renato Fabbri
> Vim is the right tool to write (and sometimes to read as well).
>

If it's a text file, (which almost all unix files are), Vim is the right
tool to produce it. It can be used in read-only mode, if you're afraid of
accidental modifications. An alternative for that job would be "less",
(akak "more").

Where appearance is of the essence, e.g.CSS, you might want to use a
WYSIWYG tool, but for pure content, Vim's still good. (Especially if you
set it up to wrap tags, &c.

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Re: Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

Tony Mechelynck
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:16 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Vim is the right tool to write (and sometimes to read as well).
>>
>
> If it's a text file, (which almost all unix files are), Vim is the right
> tool to produce it. It can be used in read-only mode, if you're afraid of
> accidental modifications. An alternative for that job would be "less",
> (akak "more").
>
> Where appearance is of the essence, e.g.CSS, you might want to use a
> WYSIWYG tool, but for pure content, Vim's still good. (Especially if you
> set it up to wrap tags, &c.
>
Even when appearance is important, e.g. HTML+CSS, I still use Vim (or
gvim), then I watch in a browser how it looks like. In my experience,
WISYWYG HTML editors add spurious elements here and there, and most of
them produce bad quality non-W3C-compliant HTML. With Vim I can tune
the source text however I want.

Of course, this group's old-timers are also long-time Vim users. It
_is_ possible edit one's text with emacs, Notepad, gedit, and others,
but of course you won't find help about them here.

Best regards,
Tony.

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Re: Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

Ben Oliver
On 18-06-18 14:48:26, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
>Of course, this group's old-timers are also long-time Vim users. It
>_is_ possible edit one's text with emacs

Heresy!

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Re: Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

Anthony Campbell
In reply to this post by Tony Mechelynck
On 18 Jun 2018, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:16 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Vim is the right tool to write (and sometimes to read as well).
> >>
[snip]

> Even when appearance is important, e.g. HTML+CSS, I still use Vim (or
> gvim), then I watch in a browser how it looks like. In my experience,
> WISYWYG HTML editors add spurious elements here and there, and most of
> them produce bad quality non-W3C-compliant HTML. With Vim I can tune
> the source text however I want.
>
> Of course, this group's old-timers are also long-time Vim users. It
> _is_ possible edit one's text with emacs, Notepad, gedit, and others,
> but of course you won't find help about them here.
>

I distinguish between stuff that needs attention to its appearance and
initial drafts (most of my writing). I've self-published at least 7 books of
various kinds. I wrote all of these initially in (g)vim and then prepared
them for publication using LyX, which I find much better for this than any
ordinary word processor. Vim is ideal for cutting, pasting, spell-checking
etc and all this is best done separately from the fancy stuff.

Anthony


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Anthony Campbell http://www.acampbell.uk

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Re: Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

Renato Fabbri
linking threads:

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 4:33 AM, Anthony Campbell <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 18 Jun 2018, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 2:16 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Vim is the right tool to write (and sometimes to read as well).
> >>
[snip]
> Even when appearance is important, e.g. HTML+CSS, I still use Vim (or
> gvim), then I watch in a browser how it looks like. In my experience,
> WISYWYG HTML editors add spurious elements here and there, and most of
> them produce bad quality non-W3C-compliant HTML. With Vim I can tune
> the source text however I want.
>
> Of course, this group's old-timers are also long-time Vim users. It
> _is_ possible edit one's text with emacs, Notepad, gedit, and others,
> but of course you won't find help about them here.
>

I distinguish between stuff that needs attention to its appearance and
initial drafts (most of my writing). I've self-published at least 7 books of
various kinds. I wrote all of these initially in (g)vim and then prepared
them for publication using LyX, which I find much better for this than any
ordinary word processor. Vim is ideal for cutting, pasting, spell-checking
etc and all this is best done separately from the fancy stuff.

Anthony


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Renato Fabbri
GNU/Linux User #479299

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Re: Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

Christian Brabandt

On Sa, 23 Jun 2018, Renato Fabbri wrote:

> https://www.facebook.com/groups/124928894848184/permalink/174455496562190/

Please do not make us all click here random faceboook pages. Rather
either keep the discussion here or there. You might as well post a
summary of that page.

Best,
Christian
--
Ein Glaube, der unruhig macht, ist Aberglaube.
                -- Carl Ludwig Schleich

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Re: Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

Renato Fabbri
Em domingo, 24 de junho de 2018 05:05:17 UTC-3, Christian Brabandt  escreveu:

> On Sa, 23 Jun 2018, Renato Fabbri wrote:
>
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/124928894848184/permalink/174455496562190/
>
> Please do not make us all click here random faceboook pages. Rather
> either keep the discussion here or there. You might as well post a
> summary of that page.
>
> Best,
> Christian
> --
> Ein Glaube, der unruhig macht, ist Aberglaube.
> -- Carl Ludwig Schleich
I am really sorry.
Maybe I sould have given a short description.
It is the same content of this email, in another Vim users group.

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Re: Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

Eric Christopherson
On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Renato Fabbri <[hidden email]> wrote:
Em domingo, 24 de junho de 2018 05:05:17 UTC-3, Christian Brabandt  escreveu:
> On Sa, 23 Jun 2018, Renato Fabbri wrote:
>
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/124928894848184/permalink/174455496562190/
>
> Please do not make us all click here random faceboook pages. Rather
> either keep the discussion here or there. You might as well post a
> summary of that page.
>
> Best,
> Christian
> --
> Ein Glaube, der unruhig macht, ist Aberglaube.
>               -- Carl Ludwig Schleich

I am really sorry.
Maybe I sould have given a short description.
It is the same content of this email, in another Vim users group.

It would be helpful if you'd explain in plain English what your question is. From the body of your message, it looks like you're just asking* if Vim is the right tool for writing and reading; that's incredibly subjective and open-ended. But your subject line doesn't make any sense to me.

* At least I'm assuming you're asking a question, since you end it with two question marks; but your sentence doesn't include the word order inversion usually used of questions in English, and has a period at the end, so it looks like a statement.


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Re: Is it a matter of Unix ABC, B-A-BA', basics, school stuff, RTFM ?

Renato Fabbri
Em sábado, 30 de junho de 2018 19:43:34 UTC-3, Eric Christopherson  escreveu:

> On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Renato Fabbri <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Em domingo, 24 de junho de 2018 05:05:17 UTC-3, Christian Brabandt  escreveu:
>
> > On Sa, 23 Jun 2018, Renato Fabbri wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/124928894848184/permalink/174455496562190/
>
> >
>
> > Please do not make us all click here random faceboook pages. Rather
>
> > either keep the discussion here or there. You might as well post a
>
> > summary of that page.
>
> >
>
> > Best,
>
> > Christian
>
> > --
>
> > Ein Glaube, der unruhig macht, ist Aberglaube.
>
> >               -- Carl Ludwig Schleich
>
>
>
> I am really sorry.
>
> Maybe I sould have given a short description.
>
> It is the same content of this email, in another Vim users group.
>
>
>
> It would be helpful if you'd explain in plain English what your question is. From the body of your message, it looks like you're just asking* if Vim is the right tool for writing and reading; that's incredibly subjective and open-ended. But your subject line doesn't make any sense to me.
>
>
> * At least I'm assuming you're asking a question, since you end it with two question marks; but your sentence doesn't include the word order inversion usually used of questions in English, and has a period at the end, so it looks like a statement.


==
I am very sorry for the nonstandard English.

My question makes sense for some people, as some of the responses
attest.

Maybe this is a more general audience formulation:

- is Vim the standard tool for editing
(and reading and browsing as an extension,
for the needs of a human text writer)?

the answer is a neat 'it depends', IMHO (in my humble opinion).
But consider it in the Linux tradition/school.

I tend to think that Vim or Emacs would be the
"correct" tools in this sense.
But I have seen skillful programmers deal pretty
well with text also using Sublime, Atom,
and other more recent text editors.

As the musical instrument imposes an idiom to the music
(guitar music has arpeggios, percussive rhythms, etc),
the tool a human writer uses (potentially) dictates the
skills and produced artifacts (s)he reaches.

That Vim is *a* standard tool,
I think we all agree.
Some here manifested a (potentially) positive opinion about Vim
being *the* standard (for the human text writer).
Which is somewhat interesting and expected.

The motivation of this thread is to see how other
participants of this list understand this issue.
RTFM (read the fucking manual) is a
free culture motto.
As Vi(m) is available in (almost?) all GNU/Linux distributions (and thus standard manuals),
maybe there are other serious reasons for understanding Vim
as a matter of (redundant pleonasm standard) text-editing protocol.

Maybe the GNOME school
(of connecting people to spawn welfare through magick)
is not so attached to Vim, or is
based on it, etc... Who knows, and why not ask?
What about other schools.
Are there indications in the Slackware divinized
documentation (manuals)?
I am not the one to know all this (by heart)
and the list might yield interesting insights.

Is now this thread anywhere clearer?

PS. we (humans?) have since always been updating the Guttenberg Galaxy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gutenberg_Galaxy
?

PS2. I don't mean to sound as trippy as this message, but the thread/issue
does mingle philosophy; linux, hacker and free culture; cognition; in text editing, not only for programming. This is why I am writing for your assistance.

Best regards,
r.



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