Java 1.5 tags and syntax

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Java 1.5 tags and syntax

clamey
Hey all,

Does anyone know of a tags program that can generate Vim compliant tags
for Java 1.5 source files?

How about a vim syntax file for Java 1.5 source files?

Cheers,
Chris

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Re: Java 1.5 tags and syntax

clamey
On Fri, 2005-09-09 at 13:22 +0530, Manu Anand wrote:

>
>
> On 9/8/05, Christopher Lamey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>         Hey all,
>        
>         Does anyone know of a tags program that can generate Vim
>         compliant tags
>         for Java 1.5 source files?
>
>
> Did u try ctags from http://ctags.sourceforge.net
> Works well with Java 1.5 src.

Yes, that's what I'm using now.  But it doesn't seem to support enums or
account for generics.  Someone sent me a diff to ctags 5.5.4 to include
template/generic support for Java, I haven't had time to try it yet.

I'm a little surprised, I thought there was a good size group of people
developing Java with Vim.  I guess everyone's already switched to Ruby
or gone back to C++;)

Cheers,
Chris


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mailing list management

John (Eljay) Love-Jensen
Hi everyone,

A couple of the mailing lists I subscribe to have an annual flush of the
mailing list.  All members (who deign to) have to re-subscribe once a year.

Note: super-lazy members, such as myself, can be a sticky-subscriber which
doesn't get annually flushed (provided I meet the annual participation
threshold).

Would that be a possibility for the [hidden email] mailing list?

Would it be desirable by the actual human being mailing list
moderator/manager?

Just a thought.

Sincerely,
--Eljay


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Re: mailing list management

jose isaias cabrera-2

I would even say every six months.  Also, it does not have to be a
re-subscribe, but just send an email with an acceptance-to-continua link
which will make it even easier.  For us, clicking on it means list
membership continuance.

just a thought...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Eljay Love-Jensen" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:03 PM
Subject: mailing list management


> Hi everyone,
>
> A couple of the mailing lists I subscribe to have an annual flush of the
> mailing list.  All members (who deign to) have to re-subscribe once a
> year.
>
> Note: super-lazy members, such as myself, can be a sticky-subscriber which
> doesn't get annually flushed (provided I meet the annual participation
> threshold).
>
> Would that be a possibility for the [hidden email] mailing list?
>
> Would it be desirable by the actual human being mailing list
> moderator/manager?
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Sincerely,
> --Eljay
>
>
>

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Re: mailing list management

Nikolai Weibull-2
In reply to this post by John (Eljay) Love-Jensen
Eljay Love-Jensen wrote:

> A couple of the mailing lists I subscribe to have an annual flush of
> the mailing list.  All members (who deign to) have to re-subscribe
> once a year.

What's the point of this?,
        nikolai

--
Nikolai Weibull: now available free of charge at http://bitwi.se/!
Born in Chicago, IL USA; currently residing in Gothenburg, Sweden.
main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}
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Re: mailing list management

Matthew Winn
On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 12:53:12AM +0200, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
> Eljay Love-Jensen wrote:
>
> > A couple of the mailing lists I subscribe to have an annual flush of
> > the mailing list.  All members (who deign to) have to re-subscribe
> > once a year.
>
> What's the point of this?

It clears all the old entries out of the list.  This means the list
maintainer receives fewer bounce messages and so needs to spend less
time working out which of the bounces are dead addresses that should
be removed manually and which are transient server or network errors
that can be ignored.

--
Matthew Winn ([hidden email])
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Re: mailing list management

Nikolai Weibull-2
Matthew Winn wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 12:53:12AM +0200, Nikolai Weibull wrote:

> > Eljay Love-Jensen wrote:

> > > A couple of the mailing lists I subscribe to have an annual flush of
> > > the mailing list.  All members (who deign to) have to re-subscribe
> > > once a year.

> > What's the point of this?

> It clears all the old entries out of the list.  This means the list
> maintainer receives fewer bounce messages and so needs to spend less
> time working out which of the bounces are dead addresses that should
> be removed manually and which are transient server or network errors
> that can be ignored.

And why do you worry about this?  The mailing list software will remove
a mailing address if it receives too many bounces during a given period.
It has happened to me, as my server bounces certain messages that are
considered spam or virus-infested,
        nioklai

--
Nikolai Weibull: now available free of charge at http://bitwi.se/!
Born in Chicago, IL USA; currently residing in Gothenburg, Sweden.
main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}
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Re: mailing list management

John (Eljay) Love-Jensen
On 9/12/05 6:03 AM, "Nikolai Weibull"

> And why do you worry about this?  The mailing list software will remove
> a mailing address if it receives too many bounces during a given period.
> It has happened to me, as my server bounces certain messages that are
> considered spam or virus-infested,

I was not worried about that (as mentioned by Matthew Winn).

I was trying to weed out the addresses in the mailing list manager that were
errantly submitted by some yahoo.  As such, both the submitted address is
getting unsolicited [hidden email] messages (i.e., [hidden email] is being a spam
generator), and that address's robot is sending out unsolicited and
off-topic automated responses (i.e., another inadvertent spam generator).

These are not bounces.

Sincerely,
--Eljay


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Re: mailing list management

Nikolai Weibull-2
Eljay Love-Jensen wrote:

> On 9/12/05 6:03 AM, "Nikolai Weibull"

> > And why do you worry about this?  The mailing list software will
> > remove a mailing address if it receives too many bounces during a
> > given period.  It has happened to me, as my server bounces certain
> > messages that are considered spam or virus-infested,

> I was not worried about that (as mentioned by Matthew Winn).
>
> I was trying to weed out the addresses in the mailing list manager
> that were errantly submitted by some yahoo.  As such, both the
> submitted address is getting unsolicited [hidden email] messages (i.e.,
> [hidden email] is being a spam generator), and that address's robot is
> sending out unsolicited and off-topic automated responses (i.e.,
> another inadvertent spam generator).

Hm, I still don't understand.  Sorry.  Do you mean that the message I'm
sending now is what you call "spam" here?  Do you mean that people are
inadvertently being registered to receive messages from this mailing
list?  (I really don't want to be a pain, but I still don't understand
the issue at hand.),
        nikolai

--
Nikolai Weibull: now available free of charge at http://bitwi.se/!
Born in Chicago, IL USA; currently residing in Gothenburg, Sweden.
main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}
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Re: mailing list management

John (Eljay) Love-Jensen
Hi Nikolai,

> Hm, I still don't understand.  Sorry.  Do you mean that the message I'm
> sending now is what you call "spam" here?

Your message is being forwarded by the mail list manager to people who did
not elect to receive your message.

People who did not subscribe to the [hidden email] mailing list.

People who are on the [hidden email] mailing list roster by no choice of their
own.

> Do you mean that people are inadvertently being registered to receive messages
from this mailing list?

No, I mean that I presume some yahoo has INTENTIONALLY registered OTHER
people to receive message from this mailing list.

> (I really don't want to be a pain, but I still don't understand the issue at
hand.)

The issue-at-hand being that our [hidden email] mailing list is being used to
send unsolicited messages to people.

My personal viewpoint is that *I* am bothered that *I* am sending
unsolicited bulk messages via a mailing list manager to those who did not
elect to receive them.  (Hence my post about the topic.)

Others on this forum have indicated to me (offline) that they like that
situation - both being the recipient of spam and the source of spam and
using [hidden email] as the vehicle for said spam.  *shrug*

Sincerely,
--Eljay


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Re: mailing list management

Nikolai Weibull-2
Eljay Love-Jensen wrote:

> Hi Nikolai,

Hi.

> > Hm, I still don't understand.  Sorry.  Do you mean that the message
> > I'm sending now is what you call "spam" here?

> Your message is being forwarded by the mail list manager to people who
> did not elect to receive your message.

OK, first off, how do _you_ know this?

> People who did not subscribe to the [hidden email] mailing list.

How do people get subscribed without answering a "subscription
request"-type mail?

> People who are on the [hidden email] mailing list roster by no choice of
> their own.

If so, it's quite simple to unsubscribe.

> > Do you mean that people are inadvertently being registered to
> > receive messages from this mailing list?

> No, I mean that I presume some yahoo has INTENTIONALLY registered
> OTHER people to receive message from this mailing list.

That's what I meant (inadvertently to them, that is).  (Btw, I thought
the word "yahoo" lost all its previous meanings when yahoo.com launched
;-)

> > (I really don't want to be a pain, but I still don't understand the
> > issue at hand.)

> The issue-at-hand being that our [hidden email] mailing list is being
> used to send unsolicited messages to people.

Can we please keep spam and mail sent to this mailing list separate?  I
don't consider my message to be spam and if someone has

> My personal viewpoint is that *I* am bothered that *I* am sending
> unsolicited bulk messages via a mailing list manager to those who did
> not elect to receive them.  (Hence my post about the topic.)

I feel that this is a viewpoint that also includes thinking that *you*
are in some way making the world hunger-problem worse by not finishing
*your* dinner.  I don't see how we can be personally responsible for
some f**ker who is abusing mailing lists.  And it's not like we're
trying to sell anyone \/1A6R4 or fR33 P0R|\| or 5T0C!< T1PS...

> Others on this forum have indicated to me (offline) that they like
> that situation - both being the recipient of spam and the source of
> spam and using [hidden email] as the vehicle for said spam.  *shrug*

How is a periodical "cleanup" going to make things better?  If someone
is registering other people (how they do this I do not understand) to
this list, they'll surely do it again if they so desire.  People who
have inadvertently been subscribed to this list can, as said,
unsubscribe,
        nikolai

--
Nikolai Weibull: now available free of charge at http://bitwi.se/!
Born in Chicago, IL USA; currently residing in Gothenburg, Sweden.
main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}
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Re: mailing list management

Charles E Campbell Jr
I will try to explain what I see as "the situation", actually, a
possible way the Daum/Yahoo situations are arising.
This is a scenario, folks -- not necessarily the Real Thing.

I suspect that both Daum and Yahoo provide some ISP-like services,
possibly for others, likely for their employees.

Assume that the "culprit" was a former employee -- at the time of
employment, that employee subscribed to
the vim mailing list, possibly as part of their computer support
services. Once that employee left, their account
was no longer active, and email to their old accounts are treated
"special" -- ie. interpreted as requests for s/w
support. I can't read Korean (sorry!), so I don't know what Daum is
auto-replying, but it appears that that could
be the case for Yahoo.

Irregardless of whether this situation is What Happened, the Yahoo/Daum
situation is annoying for vim list
writers, not readers; I rather doubt that its annoying Yahoo/Daum any (I
doubt that the robots really use much cpu
bouncing that stuff back to each author). I am additionally peeved that
Yahoo's robot's message pretends that
its human-originated.

Now, how to fix it -- looks like probes are needed, as mentioned. OTOH,
the mailing list support for vim is spotty
at best, and I doubt it'll get fixed. I apologize for not remembering
who it was, but an earlier Daum episode got
fixed finally when Daum got itself blacklisted. I guess that that *did*
annoy them.

Regards,
Chip Campbell



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Re: mailing list management

Bruce Mellows
Charles E. Campbell, Jr. wrote:

>
> I suspect that both Daum and Yahoo provide some ISP-like services,
> possibly for others, likely for their employees.

Actually, Daum *IS* an ISP. One of the biggest in Korea.

It then becomes obvious that some Daum customer joined the [hidden email]
mailing list with (I will assume for the sake of politeness [remember
that]) a genuine interest in vim, and subsequently has changed ISP's,
whereupon Daum are now informing the sender (the mailing list software),
to stop sending this undeliverable email (you see; it is we, not them,
that are the villain).

The fact that you can read the word Daum but after that there is just
some unintelligible text (it is Korean after all), does not mean that it
is from some jerk who hasn't bothered to convert to your preferred (or
agreed upon) language.


Daum is innocent. Daum is a victim. Let my people go.


Perhaps the real solution is to find some other (less worked) person who
can host the list and maintain it properly. No slight upon the current
list maintainer, it seems you have too much to do as it is (and may not
even be aware of our existence, us like so many cockroaches busy in the
wall cavity)
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Re: mailing list management

A.J.Mechelynck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Mellows" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: mailing list management


> Charles E. Campbell, Jr. wrote:
>
>>
>> I suspect that both Daum and Yahoo provide some ISP-like services,
>> possibly for others, likely for their employees.
>
> Actually, Daum *IS* an ISP. One of the biggest in Korea.
>
> It then becomes obvious that some Daum customer joined the [hidden email]
> mailing list with (I will assume for the sake of politeness [remember
> that]) a genuine interest in vim, and subsequently has changed ISP's,
> whereupon Daum are now informing the sender (the mailing list software),
> to stop sending this undeliverable email (you see; it is we, not them,
> that are the villain).
>
> The fact that you can read the word Daum but after that there is just some
> unintelligible text (it is Korean after all), does not mean that it is
> from some jerk who hasn't bothered to convert to your preferred (or agreed
> upon) language.
>
>
> Daum is innocent. Daum is a victim. Let my people go.

Well, why then can't Daum use the accepted method of notifying the sender
that the mail is undeliverable, i.e., give a 5xx error message during the
SMTP command handshaking? If it did, the Vim mailbot would immediately
recognise that the destination mailbox is bouncing, and it would terminate
it soon afterwards, after determining that the "bouncing state" is
permanent. No, they have to accept the mail, and later send a pseudo-bounce
email straight to the "From:" address (disregarding the "Return-Path:"
header, whatever that one is for).

>
>
> Perhaps the real solution is to find some other (less worked) person who
> can host the list and maintain it properly. No slight upon the current
> list maintainer, it seems you have too much to do as it is (and may not
> even be aware of our existence, us like so many cockroaches busy in the
> wall cavity)

Perhaps. But who is willing to do it? Will (s)he do it at least as reliably
as presently? Will the list servers remain at foobar.math.fu-berlin.de or
will some other machine take up the task? In the latter case, who shall
transfer the list software and database, and update the @vim.org DNS
records? Etc.


Best regards,
Tony.


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Re: mailing list management

Bruce Mellows
Tony Mechelynck wrote:

> Well, why then can't Daum use the accepted method of notifying the
> sender that the mail is undeliverable, i.e., give a 5xx error message
> during the SMTP command handshaking? If it did, the Vim mailbot would
> immediately recognise that the destination mailbox is bouncing, and it
> would terminate it soon afterwards, after determining that the "bouncing
> state" is permanent. No, they have to accept the mail, and later send a
> pseudo-bounce email straight to the "From:" address (disregarding the
> "Return-Path:" header, whatever that one is for).

Now that is an irrefutably veracious statement.

I stand corrected.

(Daum is the villain after all)
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Re: mailing list management

adah
In reply to this post by John (Eljay) Love-Jensen
Bruce Mellows wrote:

> Tony Mechelynck wrote:
>
>> Well, why then can't Daum use the accepted method of notifying the
>> sender that the mail is undeliverable, i.e., give a 5xx error message
>> during the SMTP command handshaking? If it did, the Vim mailbot would
>> immediately recognise that the destination mailbox is bouncing, and
>> it would terminate it soon afterwards, after determining that the
>> "bouncing state" is permanent. No, they have to accept the mail, and
>> later send a pseudo-bounce email straight to the "From:" address
>> (disregarding the "Return-Path:" header, whatever that one is for).
>
> Now that is an irrefutably veracious statement.
>
> I stand corrected.
>
> (Daum is the villain after all)

Well, there is a valid reason why they do not reject on the SMTP level.
They want to reject `valid address probing' (spammers can use the mail
server response to decide whether a user name is valid on a certain
server if the server acts `normally').  I have some non-public address
spammed, and I think the reason is that `adah' is really a short name so
a spammer can quickly reach from `a' to `aaaa' to `adah'.

Sigh.  They are not villains, though they should really be more friendly
to (non-spamming) robots and non-Koreans.

Best regards,

Yongwei
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Re: mailing list management

John (Eljay) Love-Jensen
In reply to this post by Nikolai Weibull-2
Hi Nikolai,

> OK, first off, how do _you_ know this?

Because I have read the messages from the auto-bots of those sending out
messages, and I can reason.

> How do people get subscribed without answering a "subscription request"-type
mail?

I do not know.

Perhaps a once legit [hidden email] subscriber left his company or changes
ISPs, and now the defunct email account has been forwarded to an auto-bot.

That's just speculation.

> If so, it's quite simple to unsubscribe.

Sure.  Who will program their auto-bots to unsubscribe?

> Can we please keep spam and mail sent to this mailing list separate?  I don't
consider my message to be spam and if someone has

You seem to have not completed your sentence.

You'll note that I did not use the term "spam" in that email (except when
citing others).

I used the term "unsolicited bulk messages".

> I feel that this is a viewpoint that also includes thinking that *you* are in
some way making the world hunger-problem worse by not finishing *your* dinner.

I do not see the analogy.

> I don't see how we can be personally responsible for some f**ker who is
abusing mailing lists.  And it's not like we're trying to sell anyone \/1A6R4 or
fR33 P0R|\| or 5T0C!< T1PS...

Our mailing list is the one that is contributing to the sending of
unsolicited bulk messags.

> How is a periodical "cleanup" going to make things better?

By weeding out dead accounts, where the ISP is not abiding by the protocol
to bounce dead accounts.

> If someone is registering other people (how they do this I do not understand)
to this list, they'll surely do it again if they so desire.  People who have
inadvertently been subscribed to this list can, as said, unsubscribe,

The auto-bots are probably not programmed to unsubscribe.  They probably
only provide an automated response.

Sincerely,
--Eljay


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RE: mailing list management

Keith W. Roberts
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eljay Love-Jensen [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:28 AM
> To: Nikolai Weibull; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: mailing list management
>
> Hi Nikolai,
>
> > OK, first off, how do _you_ know this?
>
> Because I have read the messages from the auto-bots of those
> sending out
> messages, and I can reason.
>
> > How do people get subscribed without answering a
> "subscription request"-type
> mail?
>
> I do not know.
>
> Perhaps a once legit [hidden email] subscriber left his company
> or changes
> ISPs, and now the defunct email account has been forwarded to
> an auto-bot.
>
> That's just speculation.
>
> > If so, it's quite simple to unsubscribe.
>
> Sure.  Who will program their auto-bots to unsubscribe?
>
> > Can we please keep spam and mail sent to this mailing list
> separate?  I don't
> consider my message to be spam and if someone has
>
> You seem to have not completed your sentence.
>
> You'll note that I did not use the term "spam" in that email
> (except when
> citing others).
>
> I used the term "unsolicited bulk messages".
>
> > I feel that this is a viewpoint that also includes thinking
> that *you* are in
> some way making the world hunger-problem worse by not
> finishing *your* dinner.
>
> I do not see the analogy.
>
> > I don't see how we can be personally responsible for some
> f**ker who is
> abusing mailing lists.  And it's not like we're trying to
> sell anyone \/1A6R4 or
> fR33 P0R|\| or 5T0C!< T1PS...
>
> Our mailing list is the one that is contributing to the sending of
> unsolicited bulk messags.
>
> > How is a periodical "cleanup" going to make things better?
>
> By weeding out dead accounts, where the ISP is not abiding by
> the protocol
> to bounce dead accounts.
>
> > If someone is registering other people (how they do this I
> do not understand)
> to this list, they'll surely do it again if they so desire.  
> People who have
> inadvertently been subscribed to this list can, as said, unsubscribe,
>
> The auto-bots are probably not programmed to unsubscribe.  
> They probably
> only provide an automated response.
>
> Sincerely,
> --Eljay

I don't think they can be "dead" accounts, because the address could then
not be resolved, and  the list would get a bounce from the DNS servers (I
think) and would eventually unsubscribe them.

But perhaps they are "inactive" accounts (the address is valid, but an
autobot is handling the mail in some way, rather than an end-user).  

Or perhaps this is caused by some peculiar form of blocking done by Daum
(ie, the end-user didn't unsubscribe, but no longer want to hear from us and
"blocked" [hidden email], but the bounce message is returned to the Reply-To,
which is always the one who posted to the list).  

Or perhaps a legitimate end-user has been infected with a virus that is set
to "annoy" the Reply-To with either a direct reply or a forward to eBay,
which then autoreplies.

-Keith