Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

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Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Matej Cepl-2
Hi,

I love VO, but I am getting really unhappy with vim (see the sig of this
message for reasons why). Next version of Kate (KDE Advanced Text Editor)
should include support for KJS (KDE version of JavaScript -- what's in
Konqueror and partially in Mac's Safari). I don't know if I will be ever
able to make KJS/Kate clone of VO, but I have created a simple syntax clone
of highlighting file. It is available on http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/tmp/
(before I find better place for it).

Matej
--
Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/
GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
 
Q: Is vi an easy editor to learn, is it intuitive?
A: Yes, some of us think so. But most people think that we are
   crazy.
    -- vi FAQ

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Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Stefan Schmiedl
Matej Cepl (20.08. 18:33):

> Hi,
>
> I love VO, but I am getting really unhappy with vim (see the sig of this
> message for reasons why).

Why, if I may ask?

I've found that vi's modal structure fits very good into my work style.
And since I am currently also using emacs (slime mode for dabbling with
common lisp), I really appreciate the no-nonsense keyboard bindings of
vim.

> --
> Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/
> GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
>  
> Q: Is vi an easy editor to learn, is it intuitive?
> A: Yes, some of us think so. But most people think that we are
>    crazy.
>     -- vi FAQ

"easy to learn" is not important, once you've learned it.
"intuitive" is what you've learned really well.

Probably I'm too dense to get your point, which bothers me.

s.

--
Stefan Schmiedl
+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
|Approximity GmbH               | EDV-Beratung Schmiedl                  |
|http://www.approximity.com     | Am Bräuweiher 4, 93499 Zandt, Germany  |
|mailto:[hidden email]  | Tel. (09944) 3068-98, Fax -97          |
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Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VOL files

Matej Cepl-2
Stefan Schmiedl wrote:
>> Q: Is vi an easy editor to learn, is it intuitive?
>> A: Yes, some of us think so. But most people think that we are
>>    crazy.
>
> "easy to learn" is not important, once you've learned it.
> "intuitive" is what you've learned really well.
>
> Probably I'm too dense to get your point, which bothers me.

No, you are certainly not dense in any understanding of the word (or not
more than I and the rest of the humanity are -- I guess that your specific
weight is quite similar to mine :-)), but you are coming with slightly
different requirements on your computer environment. Or probably it is just
brain damage of mine caused by many years of using Windows, but somehow
even after couple of years of using vim it still feels very strange and
unfamiliar. However, discussion cannot be made around feelings, so here are
some rational (or semi-rational) reasons, why I begun to think a lot about
leaving vim.

I guess that you are a programmer (or some other CS-guy--why would you edit
Common Lisp scripts?) and so the most of your time is spent editing plain
text in a text editor. That is not my case, and I found myself to spend
bigger and bigger proportion of time in some kind of KDE
applications---KMail, KNode, LyX (OK, it is not KDE-based yet, but with
similar user interface), Konqueror, which is probably the reason that even
when I was editing plain text files (Python source code, R-scripts,
different XML files) it felt better when I did it with kate (BTW, talking
about XML files, kate's XML plugin is probably the only comparable
environment for editing XML files to Emacs's PSGML I've met so far). It
seems to me that more and more I work with KDE it is more and more
difficult to achieve satori (I guess you have already read "Zenclavier:
Extreme Keyboarding" by Tom Christiansen
<http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/news/zenclavier_1299.html>, it
should be obligatory reading for any vi-geek) and contrary to the Tom's
article it was more and more simple to achieve it working with KDE
programs. As if the most important condition of the satori is not the best
design of the computer program (and there could be much said about clever
design of vi---Tom has already wrote it), but uniformity of the user
experience. It doesn't mean, that there are many ways how to screw up
design of a text editor (for example, no one explained me well, what are
toolbars good for editing texts), but that the design is not everything.
When you achieve relatively good design (and of course all main text
editors for Linux and many other for Windows or Mac did it) then the
familiarity can kick in and you can achieve oneness with your computer.

This leads to some rather strange conclusions. If the homogeneity of
environment is the most important requirement, then the best Desktop
environment is the one which provides the most homogenous user experience
(which is IMHO one of the reasons why OS/2 failed and why Linux achieved
competitivness with Windows for general public IMHO only in the last couple
of years, although both desktop environments were much better in terms of
their window managers, background philosophy etc. for many many years
already). True, I have never tried GNOME hard enough in the last years to
make any reasonable comparisons (so this should not be understood as a shot
against GNOME in the KDE-GNOME holy war), but it seems to me that KDE is
currently the best desktop environment on Linux (and not only on Linux???)
in terms of its overall homogeneity. For each application which makes KDE
you can probably find a comparable or better alternative (although
sometimes you have to search really hard--for example, KMail and Konqueror
are just bloody good programs in themselves), but each of these
alternatives lead to their own worlds closed to anybody else (I have to
note though that I almost never use KOffice, which could change balance
towards OpenOffice.org and GNOME for others). Mozilla programs are one
world for itself, Emacs and GVim are kind of addictive drugs closing ones'
mind to anything else, it is probably true about OpenOffice.org as well.

And then there are some just plain technical reasons why I am getting
worried about any dependency on GVim--see for example
<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/linux.debian.maint.kde/browse_thread\
/thread/d8863e0dd351e54> or the thread I have originated on
<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.editors/browse_thread/thread\
/efa5636fb753e83d/>. No, and I don't think that yzis is the answer
<http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.editors.yzis.devel/522>.

Just to explain why I do not think that you are more dense than anybody else
(which would be quite achievement in itself) and why I am doing what I am
doing. You can read this and other similar notes on computer related part
of my blog <http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/computer/>.

Best,

Matej

--
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Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Dillon Jones
In reply to this post by Matej Cepl-2
Matej,

        That's wonderful.  Though I'm sorry to hear about your frustrations with
vim, I'm happy you are taking steps to move VO to a larger scope.  When Steve
and I first discussed the idea of a vimoutliner, we had slightly different
conceptions of the same animal: he envisioned a fabulous tool; I a
super-simple high-level markup language.  Both fit the efforts of the VO
community quite well thanks to the efforts of folks like you.  Good luck in
your port!

fdj


On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 06:33:47PM +0200, Matej Cepl wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I love VO, but I am getting really unhappy with vim (see the sig of this
> message for reasons why). Next version of Kate (KDE Advanced Text Editor)
> should include support for KJS (KDE version of JavaScript -- what's in
> Konqueror and partially in Mac's Safari). I don't know if I will be ever
> able to make KJS/Kate clone of VO, but I have created a simple syntax clone
> of highlighting file. It is available on http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/tmp/
> (before I find better place for it).
>
> Matej
> --
> Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/
> GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
>  
> Q: Is vi an easy editor to learn, is it intuitive?
> A: Yes, some of us think so. But most people think that we are
>    crazy.
>     -- vi FAQ
>
> _______________________________________________
> VimOutliner mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo/vimoutliner
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Re: Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VOL files

Stefan Schmiedl
In reply to this post by Matej Cepl-2
Matej Cepl (21.08. 15:13):

> I guess that you are a programmer (or some other CS-guy--why would you edit
> Common Lisp scripts?) and so the most of your time is spent editing plain
> text in a text editor.

True. If I can't edit it as plain text, I don't edit it :-)

> That is not my case, and I found myself to spend
> bigger and bigger proportion of time in some kind of KDE
> applications---KMail, KNode, LyX (OK, it is not KDE-based yet, but with

Use mutt/vim instead of kmail.  And I've always resented LaTeX's
wordiness only surpassed by XML's tagmania.

> This leads to some rather strange conclusions. If the homogeneity of

I don't care much about homogeneity, I find. I just love efficiency.

ooohhh... I care very much for homogeneity, everything should be plain
text!

> And then there are some just plain technical reasons why I am getting
> worried about any dependency on GVim--see for example
> <http://groups-beta.google.com/group/linux.debian.maint.kde/browse_thread\
> /thread/d8863e0dd351e54> or the thread I have originated on
> <http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.editors/browse_thread/thread\
> /efa5636fb753e83d/>. No, and I don't think that yzis is the answer
> <http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.editors.yzis.devel/522>.

heh ... the problem is your dependency on KDE, not gvim. Break the
habit, use lots of console windows with xfce. :-)

Have a nice week,
s.

--
Stefan Schmiedl
+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
|Approximity GmbH               | EDV-Beratung Schmiedl                  |
|http://www.approximity.com     | Am Bräuweiher 4, 93499 Zandt, Germany  |
|mailto:[hidden email]  | Tel. (09944) 3068-98, Fax -97          |
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Re: Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VOL files

Ben Armstrong
In reply to this post by Matej Cepl-2
On Sun, 2005-08-21 at 15:13 +0200, Matej Cepl wrote:
Or probably it is just
brain damage of mine caused by many years of using Windows, but somehow
even after couple of years of using vim it still feels very strange and
unfamiliar.
I have similar unease, and I have never been, nor ever will be a Windows user.  Yuck.
I guess that you are a programmer (or some other CS-guy--why would you edit
Common Lisp scripts?) and so the most of your time is spent editing plain
text in a text editor.
For the record, I am a programmer of 20 years of professional experience.  As a child, I cut my teeth on ED and TECO line-editors on the RSTS/E operating system.  These predate vi by about 10 years.  Later, I used EDT, and now I still use TPU with EDT key bindings.  My introduction to PCs was through the TRS-80 Model I, and later, the Macintosh.  I think the editor that most heavily influenced all others at that time was Wordstar.  The tiny text editor in my first notebook computer, the NEC PC8201A which I purchased around 1985, had Wordstar key bindings.  As with vi, keystroke efficiency was always very important for TPU, EDT and Wordstar, but unlike vi, all of these editors were modeless.  So using a modeless editor feels "natural" now, although using a modal editor is beginning to grow on me.
This leads to some rather strange conclusions. If the homogeneity of
environment is the most important requirement, then the best Desktop
environment is the one which provides the most homogenous user experience
(which is IMHO one of the reasons why OS/2 failed and why Linux achieved
competitivness with Windows for general public IMHO only in the last couple
of years, although both desktop environments were much better in terms of
their window managers, background philosophy etc. for many many years
already).
I would argue that it is not homogeneity that is most important, but the concept popular in the Ruby community called the "Principle of Least Surprise" (POLS).  That is, things should work the way you expect them to work.  The reason vi is so frustrating for so many is a simple matter of expectations.  Users expect to be able to type, and text comes out right away.  They expect to be able to point and click and drag and cut and paste using certain well-worn key sequences and mouse movements that are by no means "natural".  They are learned, just like everything else on the computer.  However, they are so much a part of the modern computer-using world, that it is what everyone expects.
 True, I have never tried GNOME hard enough in the last years to
make any reasonable comparisons (so this should not be understood as a shot
against GNOME in the KDE-GNOME holy war), but it seems to me that KDE is
currently the best desktop environment on Linux (and not only on Linux???)
in terms of its overall homogeneity.
That may well be.  For my purposes, GNOME works well enough.  However, I have a bit of experience with KDE, and would recommend either to new Linux users.  I certainly wouldn't recommend just a lightweight window manager.  POLS has a lot to do with that.  Users *expect* to be able to pop in a CD, floppy, or MTD and it appears on their desktop somewhere so they can get at it through the GUI without any other action on their part.  A WM by itself won't do that.  You need a modern integrated desktop like GNOME or KDE (some would include xfce with these).  It doesn't matter whether you do that the GNOME way or the KDE way, so long as it happens in the way the user expects.  Thus, homogeneity is not what is most important, here, but POLS.
Emacs and GVim are kind of addictive drugs closing ones'
mind to anything else, it is probably true about OpenOffice.org as well.
That's a bit harsh.  I think Emacs and GVim are excellent editors from the ground up.  I just think they need a bit of "tweaking" so they do what the user expects.  That's why I recommend and deploy Cream (http://cream.sf.net) at work, which makes Vim behave the way the average user expects.  Also intriguing, though I haven't had the time to look into it yet, is EasyMacs (http://easymacs.sf.net) which is "inspired by" Cream.
And then there are some just plain technical reasons why I am getting
worried about any dependency on GVim--see for example
<<A HREF="http://groups-beta.google.com/group/linux.debian.maint.kde/browse_thread\">http://groups-beta.google.com/group/linux.debian.maint.kde/browse_thread\
/thread/d8863e0dd351e54> or the thread I have originated on
<<A HREF="http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.editors/browse_thread/thread\">http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.editors/browse_thread/thread\
/efa5636fb753e83d/>. No, and I don't think that yzis is the answer
<http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.editors.yzis.devel/522>.
No matter what the state of vim in KDE at the moment, vimpart remains a good, solid concept.  If the current maintainer is giving up on it, someone else will take it up again.  So I think you're being overly cautious, here.

Although I would prefer to use Cream everywhere, I continue to use Vim for three reasons:

1. In spite of the difficulty getting used to modal editing, for certain tasks, and outlining is one of them, I really enjoy the efficiency of modal editors.  So, for most editing tasks I use Cream, living with it being less efficient, and allowing myself to be lazy about remembering all of those keystrokes to do "advanced" things, but returning to Vim whenever the mood strikes me so I can work on my modal editing proficiency.

2. In some cases, nothing but a text-only editor will do.  If I'm ssh'd into a remote system to do some system maintenance, I will most readily reach for Vim.

3. Certainly powerful Vim addons simply aren't available in Cream yet.  Vimoutliner is the primary one.

Ben


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Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Matej Cepl-2
On Saturday 20 August 2005 12:33 pm, Matej Cepl wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I love VO, but I am getting really unhappy with vim (see the sig of this
> message for reasons why). Next version of Kate (KDE Advanced Text Editor)
> should include support for KJS (KDE version of JavaScript -- what's in
> Konqueror and partially in Mac's Safari). I don't know if I will be ever
> able to make KJS/Kate clone of VO, but I have created a simple syntax clone
> of highlighting file. It is available on http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/tmp/
> (before I find better place for it).

The main reason for the original choice of Vim is that Vim is lightning fast
for the touch typist. To quote from the original VO project charter at
http://www.troubleshooters.com/projects/vimoutliner/index.htm#Charter:

"It has been designed so that you can outline as fast as you can think. Most
of the credit for accomplishing that design goal goes to the Vim editor
itself, which is so keyboarder friendly as to double the productivity of
average "GUI apps", at least for those comfortable with its keystrokes."

I don't know how keyboarder efficient Kate is.

For me there's another issue -- personally, I'd rather not have VO dependent
on KDE libraries.

SteveT

Steve Litt
Founder and acting president: GoLUG
http://www.golug.org
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Re: Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VOL files

Matej Cepl-2
In reply to this post by Stefan Schmiedl
Stefan Schmiedl wrote:
>> That is not my case, and I found myself to spend
>> bigger and bigger proportion of time in some kind of KDE
>> applications---KMail, KNode, LyX (OK, it is not KDE-based yet, but with
>
> Use mutt/vim instead of kmail.  And I've always resented LaTeX's
> wordiness only surpassed by XML's tagmania.

Just for the record: I was using mutt (and vim, of course) in Sawfish (no
GNOME libraries installed) for couple of years, I have learned it pretty
well, but for many good reasons (too complicated mail configuration) I have
gave up on it, because mutt was not able to serve me well without too much
of scripting and configuring additional programs. I mean, I know what I can
(and what I cannot) expect from mutt and I have decided against it.

> I don't care much about homogeneity, I find. I just love efficiency.

You didn't get my point -- efficiency is IMHO function of homogeneity (among
other factors).

> heh ... the problem is your dependency on KDE, not gvim. Break the
> habit, use lots of console windows with xfce. :-)

See above.

Matej

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Re: Re: Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VOL files

Stefan Schmiedl
Matej Cepl (22.08. 21:17):

> Just for the record: I was using mutt (and vim, of course) in Sawfish (no
> GNOME libraries installed) for couple of years, I have learned it pretty
> well, but for many good reasons (too complicated mail configuration) I have
> gave up on it, because mutt was not able to serve me well without too much
> of scripting and configuring additional programs. I mean, I know what I can
> (and what I cannot) expect from mutt and I have decided against it.
>
> > I don't care much about homogeneity, I find. I just love efficiency.
>
> You didn't get my point -- efficiency is IMHO function of homogeneity (among
> other factors).

That's interesting ... I'm using mutt, *because* it allows me using vim
to write my mails. I gave up on GUI clients as they tend to cancel mails
when I hit the ESC button.

s.
--
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+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
|Approximity GmbH               | EDV-Beratung Schmiedl                  |
|http://www.approximity.com     | Am Bräuweiher 4, 93499 Zandt, Germany  |
|mailto:[hidden email]  | Tel. (09944) 3068-98, Fax -97          |
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Re: Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VOL files

Matej Cepl-2
In reply to this post by Stefan Schmiedl
Stefan Schmiedl wrote:
> heh ... the problem is your dependency on KDE, not gvim. Break the
> habit, use lots of console windows with xfce. :-)

I guess this paragraph was more joke than anything else, but you are not
that far from the problem: I got really dependent on KDE, so that possible
dependency on vim makes me more worried than other way around.

Matej

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Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Matej Cepl-2
In reply to this post by Steve Litt
Steve Litt wrote:
> The main reason for the original choice of Vim is that Vim is lightning
> fast for the touch typist. To quote from the original VO project charter
> at http://www.troubleshooters.com/projects/vimoutliner/index.htm#Charter:

I had always problem with this argument for vi. How many times you have been
actually slowed down by the speed of your writing? I mean, most of the time
the thing that slows me down is that thing between my ears. So that it
seems to me that more than actual speed of writing (which leads to
optimized keyboard layouts and such stuff, where certainly vi dominates) is
time you need to get out of your memory particular key combination and then
get it into computer. Ctrl-I v. [Esc]>> anyone? After couple of hours of
working with CUA-based editor I tend to forget what I am doing and do it
automatically, but whenever I need to run [Esc]>> I have to take deep
breath and think once more about what I am actually doing (besides, I do
not know if there is in vim universal commenting/commenting out shortcut
like Ctrl-D/Ctrl-Shift-D in Kate; works for every supported language).
While I was working almost exclusively in vim (couple of years ago), the
situation was reverse, but now I am really most of the time in KDE
applications.

Best,

        Matej

--
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Re: Re: Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VOL files

Samuel Wright
In reply to this post by Stefan Schmiedl
You can use an external editor such as vim with Sylpheed-Claws

S

On 8/22/05, Stefan Schmiedl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Matej Cepl (22.08. 21:17):
>
> > Just for the record: I was using mutt (and vim, of course) in Sawfish (no
> > GNOME libraries installed) for couple of years, I have learned it pretty
> > well, but for many good reasons (too complicated mail configuration) I have
> > gave up on it, because mutt was not able to serve me well without too much
> > of scripting and configuring additional programs. I mean, I know what I can
> > (and what I cannot) expect from mutt and I have decided against it.
> >
> > > I don't care much about homogeneity, I find. I just love efficiency.
> >
> > You didn't get my point -- efficiency is IMHO function of homogeneity (among
> > other factors).
>
> That's interesting ... I'm using mutt, *because* it allows me using vim
> to write my mails. I gave up on GUI clients as they tend to cancel mails
> when I hit the ESC button.
>
> s.
> --
> Stefan Schmiedl
> +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
> |Approximity GmbH               | EDV-Beratung Schmiedl                  |
> |http://www.approximity.com     | Am Bräuweiher 4, 93499 Zandt, Germany  |
> |mailto:[hidden email]  | Tel. (09944) 3068-98, Fax -97          |
> +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
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>

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Re: Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Matej Cepl-2
On Monday 22 August 2005 05:29 pm, Matej Cepl wrote:
> Steve Litt wrote:
> > The main reason for the original choice of Vim is that Vim is lightning
> > fast for the touch typist. To quote from the original VO project charter
> > at http://www.troubleshooters.com/projects/vimoutliner/index.htm#Charter:
>
> I had always problem with this argument for vi. How many times you have
> been actually slowed down by the speed of your writing? I mean, most of the
> time the thing that slows me down is that thing between my ears.

The thing between my ears is exactly the reason I prefer Vim keystrokes.
Although on average my brain is slower than my fingers -- maybe even my
fingers on Emacs or CUA. But that's on average.

The problem is my brain produces content in short bursts bordered by long
periods of inactivity or wasted activity. Those short bursts are ephemeral --
they can be lost (forgotten) if not recorded to permanent media immediately.
If they are lost, I must wait through a long waste period before recovering
the breakthrough. Vim keystrokes, especially when enhanced by comma comma
commands, enables me to record those bursts as they come out of my brain, so
no brain burst is wasted.

> So that it
> seems to me that more than actual speed of writing (which leads to
> optimized keyboard layouts and such stuff, where certainly vi dominates) is
> time you need to get out of your memory particular key combination and then
> get it into computer.

I think any key combination, whether Vim, VO, CUA or (gulp) Emacs eventually
becomes a reflex action requiring no brain power. The one remaining question
is the physical difficulty of the keystroke. All other things being equal,
the more keys that must be pressed, the slower (and please remember, these
keystrokes must keep up with brain bursts). All other things being equal,
longer reaches are slower. IMHO Vim has the quickest keyboard interface.

> Ctrl-I v. [Esc]>> anyone?

The singlemost bottleneck of the Vim keystroke model is Esc. It's too far
away, and slows things down. In the past I tried to substitute a comma comma
command for Esc, but that wasn't much faster. Perhaps a Ctrl+ command would
be better. I wholeheartedly agree that VO would be much better if we could
find a really fast and easy substitute for Esc.

SteveT
 
Steve Litt
Founder and acting president: GoLUG
http://www.golug.org
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Re: Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Matej Cepl-2
Steve Litt wrote:
>> Ctrl-I v. [Esc]>> anyone?
>
> The singlemost bottleneck of the Vim keystroke model is Esc. It's too far
> away, and slows things down. In the past I tried to substitute a comma
> comma command for Esc, but that wasn't much faster. Perhaps a Ctrl+
> command would be better. I wholeheartedly agree that VO would be much
> better if we could find a really fast and easy substitute for Esc.

For you: do you know that <Ctrl-C> can be used instead of <Esc>?

Matej

--
Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/
GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
 
According to the Franciscan priest Richard Rohr, spirituality is
not for people who are trying to avoid hell; it is for people
who have been through hell. In many ways, spirituality is about
what we do with our pain. And the truth is, if we don't
transform it, we will transmit it.
        -- Al Gustafson
       (quoted at
       http://thecorner.typepad.com/bc/2004/04/transform_not_t.html)

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Re: Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Detlef Steuer
In reply to this post by Steve Litt
> The singlemost bottleneck of the Vim keystroke model is Esc. It's too far
> away, and slows things down. In the past I tried to substitute a comma comma
> command for Esc, but that wasn't much faster. Perhaps a Ctrl+ command would
> be better. I wholeheartedly agree that VO would be much better if we could
> find a really fast and easy substitute for Esc.

You tried this tip?
http://vim.sourceforge.net/tips/tip.php?tip_id=166

Swapping CAPSLOCK and ESC!

Detlef

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Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Matej Cepl-2
On Saturday 20 August 2005 12:33 pm, Matej Cepl wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I love VO, but I am getting really unhappy with vim (see the sig of this
> message for reasons why). Next version of Kate (KDE Advanced Text Editor)
> should include support for KJS (KDE version of JavaScript -- what's in
> Konqueror and partially in Mac's Safari). I don't know if I will be ever
> able to make KJS/Kate clone of VO, but I have created a simple syntax clone
> of highlighting file. It is available on http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/tmp/

How do you use it as an outliner? I never used Kate before and just installed
it.

SteveT
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Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Matej Cepl-2
Steve Litt wrote:
>> http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/tmp/
>
> How do you use it as an outliner? I never used Kate before and just
> installed it.

No, it isn't outliner yet (I have to still keep gvim installed just because
of VO), because all scripting capabilities are still missing so far, but if
you copy vo.xml file into your ~/.kde/share/apps/katepart/syntax/ directory
then next time you start up kate (or kwrite, or krusader's viewer for that
matter) when you open .otl file, you will get it coloured in the same way
(almost -- it is still more primitive and I am afraid body text is still
not working yet) as with the real VO. In one sentence, I have just a
(incomplete) clone of ~/.vim/syntax/vo_base.vim, not
~/.vim/ftplugin/vo_base.vim.

Best,

        Matej

--
Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/
GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
 
I used to date a woman who did PR and marketing for MS, so you
can imagine we had some in-depth and sometimes heated
discussions about MS vs. Linux and Macs.
Well, one day we were going hiking, and she presented me with
a really nice backback. The only issue with it was that it had
the MS logo emblazoned all over it. Of course, she knew
I wouldn't refuse it.
Anyway, she said to me, "Isn't that nice? See? What'd RedHat
ever give you for free?"
I replied, "An operating system."
That was one long, quiet hike.
      -- disserto on Slashdot
         http://slashdot.org/comments.pl\
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Re: Re: Kate-part syntax file for highlighting VO files

Matej Cepl-2
In reply to this post by Detlef Steuer
Dr. Detlef Steuer wrote:
> You tried this tip?
> http://vim.sourceforge.net/tips/tip.php?tip_id=166
>
> Swapping CAPSLOCK and ESC!

BTW, killing off CapsLock is always a great idea
(http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/news/zenclavier_1299.html), and
you can do it either with KDE Control Center, or (if you are so backwardish
that you don't have KDE :-)) with adding these options into
your /etc/X11/{xorg.conf,XF86Config}, section "InputDevice" for keyboard
(see manpage for the config file, for setxkbmap(1x), keyboard(4x),
and /etc/X11/xkb/rules/{xfree86,xorg}.lst in case you don't know what I am
talking about):

        grp_led:scroll,grp:shift_toggle,ctrl:nocaps

Best,

        Matej

--
Matej Cepl, http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/blog/
GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB  25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC
 
The politician attempts to remedy the evil by increasing the very
thing that caused the evil in the first place: legal plunder.
    -- Frederick Bastiat


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