Linux.com Feature: Five outliners for Linux

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Linux.com Feature: Five outliners for Linux

Chris Burkhardt
I noticed this article over at Linux.com which briefly reviews 5 Linux
outliners (including Vim Outliner):

http://www.linux.com/feature/149401

"VimOutliner takes a while to learn, but those who take the trouble are
often pleased that they did. Besides the usual features of outliners, it
features unique colors for each level, and, once you master the
keystrokes, perhaps the fastest input of any of the tools mentioned
here. By comparison, Emacs' outlines are rather basic, although, to be
fair, both Emacs and VimOutliner can be tweaked or supplemented by other
plugins in a number of ways."

More outliners are also mentioned in the comments (including TVO).

- Chris

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Re: Linux.com Feature: Five outliners for Linux

Steve Litt
On Friday 10 October 2008 09:50:08 pm Chris Burkhardt wrote:

> I noticed this article over at Linux.com which briefly reviews 5 Linux
> outliners (including Vim Outliner):
>
> http://www.linux.com/feature/149401
>
> "VimOutliner takes a while to learn, but those who take the trouble are
> often pleased that they did. Besides the usual features of outliners, it
> features unique colors for each level, and, once you master the
> keystrokes, perhaps the fastest input of any of the tools mentioned
> here. By comparison, Emacs' outlines are rather basic, although, to be
> fair, both Emacs and VimOutliner can be tweaked or supplemented by other
> plugins in a number of ways."
>
> More outliners are also mentioned in the comments (including TVO).

       *     *
        \ o /
         \|/
          |               C O O L
         / \  _  
        /   \/
       /
      -

We're in some pretty good company, aren't we!

I guess we need some better documentation. I can do part of that.

SteveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US
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Re: Linux.com Feature: Five outliners for Linux

Scott Scriven-2
* On Friday 10 October 2008 09:50:08 pm Chris Burkhardt wrote:
> I noticed this article over at Linux.com ...

Cool, not enough people know about VO.  :)

It's good to have the free publicity, but I'd prefer if the
articles at Linux.com were more detailed, with more research
behind them, or more experienced authors.

I'm kind of curious how the author and editor managed to miss
TreeLine.  Maybe a different editor handled this story:

  http://www.linux.com/feature/62131

* Steve Litt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I guess we need some better documentation.

VO is in a somewhat unique position, since the majority of its
features are provided by Vim itself.  So, a lot of the
documentation will overlap with Vim.

But it's still important, even with overlap.  How long did it
take to figure out the inter-outline linking thing?  It would be
helpful to have a list of Vim features which are useful for
outlining, even if VO spends 0 lines of code to implement them.

So, I'm thinking two maps -- one to translate features into vim
commands, and another to translate relevant vim commands into
descriptions of what they do.

Perhaps even more important than VO's code is the text to explain
how to use it -- tips, tricks, guides, suggestions, and best
practices.


-- Scott
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Re: Linux.com Feature: Five outliners for Linux

Noel Henson
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Scott Scriven wrote:

> * On Friday 10 October 2008 09:50:08 pm Chris Burkhardt wrote:
> > I noticed this article over at Linux.com ...
>
> Cool, not enough people know about VO.  :)
>
> It's good to have the free publicity, but I'd prefer if the
> articles at Linux.com were more detailed, with more research
> behind them, or more experienced authors.
>
> I'm kind of curious how the author and editor managed to miss
> TreeLine.  Maybe a different editor handled this story:
>
>   http://www.linux.com/feature/62131
>
> * Steve Litt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I guess we need some better documentation.
>
> VO is in a somewhat unique position, since the majority of its
> features are provided by Vim itself.  So, a lot of the
> documentation will overlap with Vim.
>
> But it's still important, even with overlap.  How long did it
> take to figure out the inter-outline linking thing?  It would be
> helpful to have a list of Vim features which are useful for
> outlining, even if VO spends 0 lines of code to implement them.
>
> So, I'm thinking two maps -- one to translate features into vim
> commands, and another to translate relevant vim commands into
> descriptions of what they do.
>
> Perhaps even more important than VO's code is the text to explain
> how to use it -- tips, tricks, guides, suggestions, and best
> practices.
>
>
> -- Scott

Good suggestions, Scott. We need to mature VO quite a bit so others can
more easily use it.

Noel

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  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

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Re: Linux.com Feature: Five outliners for Linux

Lucas González
sounds like a manual is being born

or maybe more than a manual - i mean, youtube videos etc ;-)

i can daydream

just imagine: helping people think!

lucas

2008/10/11 Noel Henson <[hidden email]>
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Scott Scriven wrote:
> * On Friday 10 October 2008 09:50:08 pm Chris Burkhardt wrote:
> > I noticed this article over at Linux.com ...
>
> Cool, not enough people know about VO.  :)
>
> It's good to have the free publicity, but I'd prefer if the
> articles at Linux.com were more detailed, with more research
> behind them, or more experienced authors.
>
> I'm kind of curious how the author and editor managed to miss
> TreeLine.  Maybe a different editor handled this story:
>
>   http://www.linux.com/feature/62131
>
> * Steve Litt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I guess we need some better documentation.
>
> VO is in a somewhat unique position, since the majority of its
> features are provided by Vim itself.  So, a lot of the
> documentation will overlap with Vim.
>
> But it's still important, even with overlap.  How long did it
> take to figure out the inter-outline linking thing?  It would be
> helpful to have a list of Vim features which are useful for
> outlining, even if VO spends 0 lines of code to implement them.
>
> So, I'm thinking two maps -- one to translate features into vim
> commands, and another to translate relevant vim commands into
> descriptions of what they do.
>
> Perhaps even more important than VO's code is the text to explain
> how to use it -- tips, tricks, guides, suggestions, and best
> practices.
>
>
> -- Scott

Good suggestions, Scott. We need to mature VO quite a bit so others can
more easily use it.

Noel

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 www.noels-lab.com     Chips, firmware and embedded systems
 www.vimoutliner.org   Work fast. Think well.

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Re: Linux.com Feature: Five outliners for Linux

Noel Henson
On Saturday 11 October 2008, Lucas González wrote:

> sounds like a manual is being born
>
> or maybe more than a manual - i mean, youtube videos etc ;-)
>
> i can daydream
>
> just imagine: helping people think!
>
> lucas
>
> 2008/10/11 Noel Henson <[hidden email]>
>
> > On Saturday 11 October 2008, Scott Scriven wrote:
> > > * On Friday 10 October 2008 09:50:08 pm Chris Burkhardt wrote:
> > > > I noticed this article over at Linux.com ...
> > >
> > > Cool, not enough people know about VO.  :)
> > >
> > > It's good to have the free publicity, but I'd prefer if the
> > > articles at Linux.com were more detailed, with more research
> > > behind them, or more experienced authors.
> > >
> > > I'm kind of curious how the author and editor managed to miss
> > > TreeLine.  Maybe a different editor handled this story:
> > >
> > >   http://www.linux.com/feature/62131
> > >
> > > * Steve Litt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > I guess we need some better documentation.
> > >
> > > VO is in a somewhat unique position, since the majority of its
> > > features are provided by Vim itself.  So, a lot of the
> > > documentation will overlap with Vim.
> > >
> > > But it's still important, even with overlap.  How long did it
> > > take to figure out the inter-outline linking thing?  It would be
> > > helpful to have a list of Vim features which are useful for
> > > outlining, even if VO spends 0 lines of code to implement them.
> > >
> > > So, I'm thinking two maps -- one to translate features into vim
> > > commands, and another to translate relevant vim commands into
> > > descriptions of what they do.
> > >
> > > Perhaps even more important than VO's code is the text to explain
> > > how to use it -- tips, tricks, guides, suggestions, and best
> > > practices.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- Scott
> >
> > Good suggestions, Scott. We need to mature VO quite a bit so others
> > can more easily use it.
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > --
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Noel Henson
> >  www.noels-lab.com     Chips, firmware and embedded systems
> >  www.vimoutliner.org   Work fast. Think well.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VimOutliner mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo/vimoutliner

OK, then. VO 0.4 will be released with additional documentation. Not just
on how to use VO but how to use outlines in general. It may be time for
a new thread.

Noel

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  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

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Re: Linux.com Feature: Five outliners for Linux

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Lucas González
On Saturday 11 October 2008 01:33:57 pm Lucas González wrote:
> sounds like a manual is being born
>
> or maybe more than a manual - i mean, youtube videos etc ;-)

That is suuuuuuch a cool idea!

STeveT

>
> i can daydream
>
> just imagine: helping people think!

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Re: Linux.com Feature: Five outliners for Linux

Scott Scriven-2
* Steve Litt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Saturday 11 October 2008 01:33:57 pm Lucas Gonz?lez wrote:
> > or maybe more than a manual - i mean, youtube videos etc ;-)
>
> That is suuuuuuch a cool idea!

A screencast is a pretty quick, effective way to demonstrate
what's possible, or show the basic concepts behind a program.  I
know I've used a few to determine whether I was interested in a
program before installing it.  Youtube resolutions might be a bit
too small though, since the text needs to be readable.

One program I've seen using screencasts is "Gnome Do":

  http://do.davebsd.com/

I don't actually use it, but the videos do a pretty good job
showing what it is, what it can do, and why it might be useful.

Also, the google tech talk on Django showed me in about an hour
what would have taken at least a day or two of experimenting to
figure out on my own.

Videos can definitely be useful.  :)


-- Scott
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