Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

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Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

adah
Bruce Mellows wrote:

> Tony Mechelynck wrote:
>> IIUC, you would have to send a different individual probe-email to
>> every vim-list subscriber, in order to know which receiving address
>> triggerred what response. If you know where and how to get the list,
>> I would say go ahead, but maybe other people think otherwise.
>
> Exactly, and therein lies the rub, while I could probe those that have
> participated on the list for some time, this would be meaningless spam
> (unless we are very lucky), the cause probably subscribed, and has
> never posted, then let their Daum account lapse.
>
> So can anyone get this list and do the probe, or perhaps it would just
> be easier to find someone else to host the list, who is not as snowed
> under as the good people of Freie Universitaet Berlin.

Can't the list maintainer do something or just speak his opinion on this
issue?  I even received a real human message from eBay after a post:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for choosing eBay's Customer Support.  My name is Tara and I
thank you for the opportunity to answer your question regarding the VIM
text editor.

You recently sent us a message in regards to the VIM text editor.
Please understand that as eBay did not write this editor, we are unable
to provide any support to you for this software.  Please visit the VIM
support page for all your VIM support needs.

Please note that for any account related issues we will need any future
correspondence to be sent in from your registered eBay address.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe probing is necessary.  Some mailing lists I subsribed to began
to do this long ago (more than 5 years).  This issue is now annoying to
both list subscribers and to people like those in eBay.

Best regards,

Yongwei
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RE: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

Keith W. Roberts
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:03 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay???
> [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]
>
> Bruce Mellows wrote:
> > Tony Mechelynck wrote:
> >> IIUC, you would have to send a different individual probe-email to
> >> every vim-list subscriber, in order to know which receiving address
> >> triggerred what response. If you know where and how to get
> the list,
> >> I would say go ahead, but maybe other people think otherwise.
> >
> > Exactly, and therein lies the rub, while I could probe
> those that have
> > participated on the list for some time, this would be
> meaningless spam
> > (unless we are very lucky), the cause probably subscribed, and has
> > never posted, then let their Daum account lapse.
> >
> > So can anyone get this list and do the probe, or perhaps it
> would just
> > be easier to find someone else to host the list, who is not
> as snowed
> > under as the good people of Freie Universitaet Berlin.
>
> Can't the list maintainer do something or just speak his
> opinion on this
> issue?  I even received a real human message from eBay after a post:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> [snip]
> ---------
>
> I believe probing is necessary.  Some mailing lists I
> subsribed to began
> to do this long ago (more than 5 years).  This issue is now
> annoying to
> both list subscribers and to people like those in eBay.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Yongwei


I heartily agree!

-Keith


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Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

Charles E Campbell Jr
In reply to this post by adah
[hidden email] wrote:

>Can't the list maintainer do something or just speak his opinion on this
>issue?  I even received a real human message from eBay after a post:
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Thank you for choosing eBay's Customer Support.  My name is Tara...
>

Except for the "Tara" (in my case it was "Nicole") I got exactly the
same message. I'm not at all sure
that this stuff isn't spam, and I'm certainly not going to reply and
verify my email address.

Regards,
Chip Campbell


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RE: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

Keith W. Roberts
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles E. Campbell, Jr. [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:38 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay???
> [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]
>
> [hidden email] wrote:
>
> >Can't the list maintainer do something or just speak his
> opinion on this
> >issue?  I even received a real human message from eBay after a post:
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >Thank you for choosing eBay's Customer Support.  My name is Tara...
> >
>
> Except for the "Tara" (in my case it was "Nicole") I got exactly the
> same message. I'm not at all sure
> that this stuff isn't spam, and I'm certainly not going to reply and
> verify my email address.
>
> Regards,
> Chip Campbell

It can't be spam if it includes the text of your [or someone's] reply to
list traffic.  They wouldn't have that text if it wasn't sent to them from
somewhere.

-Keith


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Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

Charles E Campbell Jr
Keith W. Roberts wrote:

>It can't be spam if it includes the text of your [or someone's] reply to
>list traffic.  They wouldn't have that text if it wasn't sent to them from
>somewhere.
>  
>

True, but it looks like a robot-reply to me. Perhaps its not spam, but
I'm still having my junk filtering chuck it.

Regards,
Chip Campbell

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Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

A.J.Mechelynck
In reply to this post by Keith W. Roberts
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith W. Roberts" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Charles E. Campbell, Jr.'" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:01 PM
Subject: RE: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key
counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]
[...]

> It can't be spam if it includes the text of your [or someone's] reply to
> list traffic.  They wouldn't have that text if it wasn't sent to them from
> somewhere.
>
> -Keith

It's easy to "subscribe" a spambot to the list so as to get a steady flow of
adresses to be spammed. If you reply to the pseudo-eBay mail, you confirm
that your address is "live".

I've sometimes get a few mails from eBay telling me these were actually not
sent from an eBay address.


Best regards,
Tony.


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RE: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

Keith W. Roberts
In reply to this post by Charles E Campbell Jr
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles E. Campbell, Jr. [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:17 AM
> To: Keith W. Roberts
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay???
> [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]
>
> Keith W. Roberts wrote:
>
> >It can't be spam if it includes the text of your [or
> someone's] reply to
> >list traffic.  They wouldn't have that text if it wasn't
> sent to them from
> >somewhere.
> >  
> >
>
> True, but it looks like a robot-reply to me. Perhaps its not
> spam, but
> I'm still having my junk filtering chuck it.
>
> Regards,
> Chip Campbell

I agree that it's probably an autoreply; they've probably gotten enough of
these that they search the headers for "vim.org". :)

-Keith


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Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

A.J.Mechelynck
In reply to this post by Charles E Campbell Jr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles E. Campbell, Jr." <[hidden email]>
To: "Keith W. Roberts" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key
counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]


> Keith W. Roberts wrote:
>
>>It can't be spam if it includes the text of your [or someone's] reply to
>>list traffic.  They wouldn't have that text if it wasn't sent to them from
>>somewhere.
>>
>
> True, but it looks like a robot-reply to me. Perhaps its not spam, but I'm
> still having my junk filtering chuck it.
>
> Regards,
> Chip Campbell

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

What is spam? A more "formal" name for spam is UBE: Unrequested Bulk Email.

These emails are obviously unrequested.
By this time I think we can agree that they are bulk: the quoted text and
the "My name is" part varies but essentially they are identical.
I'm feeding them to the spam blocking lists if and when I get them, just
like the Daum emails.


Best regards,
Tony.


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Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

adah
In reply to this post by adah
Tony Mechelynck wrote:

> If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
>
> What is spam? A more "formal" name for spam is UBE: Unrequested Bulk
> Email.
>
> These emails are obviously unrequested.  By this time I think we can
> agree that they are bulk: the quoted text and the "My name is" part
> varies but essentially they are identical.  I'm feeding them to the
> spam blocking lists if and when I get them, just like the Daum emails.

No, it is neither unsolicited (you emailed them) nor bulk (only sent to
you).  And generally spam is considered something commercial.

However, this is not the point.  The point is that it is much more
`economic' if the list can get rid of them, instead of letting every
member filter them.

Is Bram the list maintainer or somebody else?  If it is considered
inconfidential to give the member list to a common member, I think Keith
or I might write some code to do this and send it to the maintainer to
do the real probing.

Best regards,

Yongwei
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Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]

A.J.Mechelynck
----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: Is anyone else getting resonses from eBay??? [was FW: Key
counter (KMM38520890V74151L0KM)]


> Tony Mechelynck wrote:
>
>> If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
>>
>> What is spam? A more "formal" name for spam is UBE: Unrequested Bulk
>> Email.
>>
>> These emails are obviously unrequested.  By this time I think we can
>> agree that they are bulk: the quoted text and the "My name is" part
>> varies but essentially they are identical.  I'm feeding them to the
>> spam blocking lists if and when I get them, just like the Daum emails.
>
> No, it is neither unsolicited (you emailed them) nor bulk (only sent to
> you).  And generally spam is considered something commercial.

I did not email them; I emailed vim-at-vim-dot-org, which, as they keep
repeating, has nothing to do with eBay or with Daum Communications. The fact
that a mailbot quotes a mail of mine does not make it personal. Indeed, the
fact that they sent almost-identical mails to lots of other people, and that
they don't give sensible replies or take sensible action when I tell them
that they ought to mail vim-dash-unsubscribe-at-vim-dot-org, does make it
bulk.

I go by the definition of spam which is found in the FAQs of spamcop.net,
where spam is not necessarily commercial. "Nigerian" spam ("I am Mrs. Mobutu
Sese Seko; my late husband had millions of dollars stashed in Bermuda; I
can't get that money back by myself alone but if you help me, and we
succeed, you will get 10% of the sum..."), for instance, is not commercial
(no "commercial product" is "advertised for sale"). It is spam none the
less.
>
> However, this is not the point.  The point is that it is much more
> `economic' if the list can get rid of them, instead of letting every
> member filter them.

I agree.
>
> Is Bram the list maintainer or somebody else?  If it is considered
> inconfidential to give the member list to a common member, I think Keith
> or I might write some code to do this and send it to the maintainer to
> do the real probing.

IIUC, Bram has some admin privileges over the list but the actual list
maintainer (in addition to the ezmlm mailbot) is some overworked faculty
member in the math faculty of Freie Universit?t Berlin, and he hardly ever
intervenes. If you leave it to him to do the "real" probing, my guess is he
won't.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Yongwei

Best regards,
Tony.