Re: Vim 8.1 is released!

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Re: Vim 8.1 is released!

L. A. Walsh
Bram Moolenaar wrote:

> Hello Vim users!
>
> Announcing:  Vim (Vi IMproved) version 8.1
>
>
> This is a minor release with many small improvements and lots of bug
> fixes.  The main new feature is the terminal window.  I have put up a
> few screenshots on the Vim website:
> https://www.vim.org/vim-8.1-released.php
>  
----
    It's not clear if this that binary is a 64-bit version ...
32-bit runs between 10-15% slower on 64-bit machines.

Thanks!
-l

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Re: Vim 8.1 is released!

Bram Moolenaar

> Bram Moolenaar wrote:
> > Hello Vim users!
> >
> > Announcing:  Vim (Vi IMproved) version 8.1
> >
> >
> > This is a minor release with many small improvements and lots of bug
> > fixes.  The main new feature is the terminal window.  I have put up a
> > few screenshots on the Vim website:
> > https://www.vim.org/vim-8.1-released.php
> >  
> ----
>     It's not clear if this that binary is a 64-bit version ...
> 32-bit runs between 10-15% slower on 64-bit machines.

It is 32 bit.  Previous comparisons show that the 32 bit version is a
bit faster.  Where do you get the information that it would be slower?

There was a 64 bit version somehwere, but it isn't very popular.

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Re: Vim 8.1 is released!

Shlomi Fish-2
In reply to this post by L. A. Walsh
Hi Bram,

On Thu, 17 May 2018 20:18:26 +0200
Bram Moolenaar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello Vim users!
>
> Announcing:  Vim (Vi IMproved) version 8.1
>
>
> This is a minor release with many small improvements and lots of bug
> fixes.  The main new feature is the terminal window.  I have put up a
> few screenshots on the Vim website:
> https://www.vim.org/vim-8.1-released.php
>
> Once you have installed Vim 8.1 you can find details about the changes
> since Vim 8.1 with:
>         :help version8.1
> Or view it online:
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/vim/vim/master/runtime/doc/version8.txt
>

many thanks! The third digit of vim 8.0.x has become quite unmanagable.

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Re: Vim 8.1 is released!

L. A. Walsh
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
Bram Moolenaar wrote:

>> Bram Moolenaar wrote:
>>    
>>> Hello Vim users!
>>>
>>> Announcing:  Vim (Vi IMproved) version 8.1
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a minor release with many small improvements and lots of bug
>>> fixes.  The main new feature is the terminal window.  I have put up a
>>> few screenshots on the Vim website:
>>> https://www.vim.org/vim-8.1-released.php
>>>  
>>>      
>> ----
>>     It's not clear if this that binary is a 64-bit version ...
>> 32-bit runs between 10-15% slower on 64-bit machines.
>>    
>
> It is 32 bit.  Previous comparisons show that the 32 bit version is a
> bit faster.  Where do you get the information that it would be slower?
>  
---
    Various places and own benchmark.  It depends on which operations
you are doing and if the program can use more data.  If you take
a 32-bit prog and keep all the data at 32-bit sizes, then you have alot
of masking and shifting.  In those cases  64-bit can run 1-7% slower,
but I tend to work with larger files and being able to edit those
with out using a swap or cache file noticeably speeds things up.  Less
so today with SSD's, but unless you are using the PCI-based SSD's, that
are really non-volatile ram-disks attached to the system-bus -- those
operate on a similar order as SSD's.

Going back to 2005, some numbers:
 (https://www.passmark.com/forum/performancetest/283)

Intel:
*TEST: CPU - Integer Math*
PT6 64bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 193.3
PT6 32bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 92.9
PT6 32bit, WinXP 32bit, Result = 92.9

*TEST: CPU - Find Prime Numbers*
PT6 64bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 217.7
PT6 32bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 158.2
PT6 32bit, WinXP 32bit, Result = 157.9

*TEST: CPU - Data compression*
PT6 64bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 2584.6
PT6 32bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 2578.6
PT6 32bit, WinXP 32bit, Result = 2582.77

AMD:
*TEST: CPU - Integer Math*
PT6 64bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 210.0
PT6 32bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 111.6
PT6 32bit, WinXP 32bit, Result = 112.7

*TEST: CPU - Find Prime Numbers*
PT6 64bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 254.7
PT6 32bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 192.4
PT6 32bit, WinXP 32bit, Result = 191.8

*TEST: CPU - Data compression*
PT6 64bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 4846.1
PT6 32bit, Win2003 64bit, Result = 3244.5
PT6 32bit, WinXP 32bit, Result = 3125.6

----
Apple tends to distort their test results though -- it turns out when they
went with x86, they had wait loops in x86 drivers so the Windows versions
of the same program would run 15-20% slower.  People found out when they
loaded 3rd party drivers and the same programs were now 10-15% faster.
Created a minor squawk at the time, but Apple customers tended to see
what they wanted to see.

Another: (5 yrs ago)
https://www.viva64.com/en/k/0003/
... in general you may expect a 2-20% performance gain from mere
recompilation of a program - this is explained by architectural changes
in 64-bit processors [1]. (on the referenced page:)
Adobe Company claims that new 64-bit "Photoshop CS4" is 12% faster than
its 32-bit version.

This site:
http://www.iinuu.eu/en/it-guru/windows-7-32-vs-64-bit-performance-benchmark
shows a mix, but they show slowdowns even on math functions, so I wonder
if they
were using single-precisions or 32-bit integers rather than larger numbers.

The areas where 32-bit was faster -- had 64-bit being 1-7% slower in
some tests,
but where 64-bit was faster -- multimedia by 30-50%, SSL connections/crypto
were an average of 15-20% faster.

In many cases, 32-bit SW running on 64-bit ran slower due to all the
translation overhead.

Look at a 32-bit programs stack sometime -- nearly every stack level
requires
another level just to align the data.

If you have low-memory (<=4GB), which was true even for many 3-5 years ago,
32-bit may have an edge, but if your system has >=16G, it's likely to have
notably better perf on 64-bit.  There's where your perf can really shine --

If you have a large amound of memory -- more things can be kept in
memory even when the app is not running -- linux is real good about this
-- it will use all of free memory for filesystem caching.  Windows --
not quite as much, but most
of window's cache memory is hidden on the "free list" -- and will show up as
"free memory" -- even though cache memory on linux is also effectively free
as well -- they just count it as being used -- but both can be reallocated
to program nearly instantaneously (nothing is written to disk -- the
memory just
has to be zeroed, at most and sometimes not even that).

Another factor -- is how much of the application can be done
asynchronously --
in the background so the user doesn't have to wait.  Adobe went to
background saves in PS6 -- so the save dialogue came back immediately.  
In PS5, it could take 20-40 seconds for a 4GB file.

In the firefox family, they hurt possibilities for faster I/O by using
small
I/O sizes.  They use a 4k read/write size for everything (disk and net),
whereas
optimal is closer to 16M for fast links.  So there 64-bit won't help due to
the small I/O sizes.

So there are MANY places on the web that show 64bit as faster for most
ops -- and that the gap is increasing due to wider bus transfer sizes
and higher
multipliers (DDR) for those widths.


All that said -- everyone see evidence to support their own point of view --
can you really find as much in the way of recent benchmarks that would
support
32-bits being faster -- especially on systems with >16G of memory.









> There was a 64 bit version somehwere, but it isn't very popular.
>
>  

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Re: Vim 8.1 is released!

Christian Brabandt
In reply to this post by L. A. Walsh

On Do, 17 Mai 2018, L. A. Walsh wrote:

>    It's not clear if this that binary is a 64-bit version ...
> 32-bit runs between 10-15% slower on 64-bit machines.

There are nightly 64 bit builds available at
https://github.com/vim/vim-win32-installer/releases

However, I doubt you'll notice a difference when running those versions.
After all it is an editor and not a bitcoin miner.

Best,
Christian
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Re: Vim 8.1 is released!

Christian Brabandt
In reply to this post by L. A. Walsh

On Do, 17 Mai 2018, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

> Announcing:  Vim (Vi IMproved) version 8.1

Congratulation.

Best,
Christian
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Re: Vim 8.1 is released!

Tony Mechelynck
On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 8:51 AM, Christian Brabandt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Do, 17 Mai 2018, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
>
>> Announcing:  Vim (Vi IMproved) version 8.1
>
> Congratulation.
>
> Best,
> Christian

After moving, my phone & Internet line had been kept for a few days at
my old address. When getting back online (for Internet at least, and
AFAICT for incoming but not outgoing phone calls) I find Vim is now at
version/patchlevel 8.1.1. This is the best surprise (so far) I've had
to celebrate the move. Thanks Bram, congratulations, and long live to
Vim!

Best regards,
Tony.

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