Ruby

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Ruby

Steve Litt
Hi all,

If any of you live in the Orlando vacinity (Dillon), David Billsbrough is
presenting "Ruby and MySQL" at the GoLUG meeting tonight. More details here:

http://www.golug.org

So now instead of discussing whether our utilities should be in Perl or
Python, we can discuss the merits of Perl vs Python vs Ruby :-)

SteveT

Steve Litt
Founder and acting president: GoLUG
http://www.golug.org
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Re: Ruby

Ben Armstrong
On Thu, 2005-12-01 at 09:44 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> If any of you live in the Orlando vacinity (Dillon), David Billsbrough is
> presenting "Ruby and MySQL" at the GoLUG meeting tonight. More details here:
>
> http://www.golug.org
>
> So now instead of discussing whether our utilities should be in Perl or
> Python, we can discuss the merits of Perl vs Python vs Ruby :-)

Because I'm in Canada, I regretfully won't be able to attend.  However,
I'll register my preference for Ruby now, in case anyone is keeping
score.

Ben

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Re: Ruby

Stefan Schmiedl
In reply to this post by Steve Litt
Steve Litt (01.12. 09:44):

> So now instead of discussing whether our utilities should be in Perl or
> Python, we can discuss the merits of Perl vs Python vs Ruby :-)

Waaaay ahead of the crowd ...
co-wrote a German ruby book some years ago already :-)
And, of course, all of my scripts are ruby.

Except for frozenbubble and aisleriot I could live without those "P"
languages quite nicely :-D

Ruby trivia: Pearl and Ruby are "month stones" in Japan. Ruby's month is
the successor of Pearl's month.

s.

--
Stefan Schmiedl
+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
|Approximity GmbH               | EDV-Beratung Schmiedl                  |
|http://www.approximity.com     | Am Bräuweiher 4, 93499 Zandt, Germany  |
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Re: Ruby

Matej Cepl-2
In reply to this post by Ben Armstrong
BG - Ben Armstrong wrote:
> Because I'm in Canada, I regretfully won't be able to attend.  However,
> I'll register my preference for Ruby now, in case anyone is keeping
> score.

In case there is voting, then I would like to repeat my preferences for
Python. No, I do not know anything about Ruby, but my point is that I do
not have reason to know. Apparently, there are good reasons why not to use
Perl (for example, I have tried to learn it couple of times and it always
went nowhere :-)), but when I have studied couple of threads on
comp.lang.python about beauty of Ruby, it felt like the differences are
really esoteric and doesn't justify switch from Python to Ruby. However, on
the plus side of Python is its much wider acceptance (like everybody seems
to be using Python as its embedded language these days -- OOo, KOffice;
Ubuntu, RedHat (IIRC), and Apple use it as its preferred language for OS
scripting, etc.) and so it is much probable that user in the empty
wilderness (aka M$ Windows) will have Python installed than Ruby (although
Perl is probably still more probable yet).

On the minus side of Python is that it is getting image of being widely
accepted, so real geek will not sufficiently show his geekines when using
it. And, honestly, isn't geekish image one of the biggest reason why would
anybody use vim :-D?

My ¢.02.

Matej
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Re: Re: Ruby

Luis Garcia-Vega

I say we do both.
 
Build a Lisp interpreter inside of vim, and then emulate Ruby AND Python.  

but then we'd have Emacs. Nevermind.


~lgv


On Thu, Dec 01, 2005 at 08:07:37PM -0500, Matej Cepl wrote:

> BG - Ben Armstrong wrote:
> > Because I'm in Canada, I regretfully won't be able to attend.  However,
> > I'll register my preference for Ruby now, in case anyone is keeping
> > score.
>
> In case there is voting, then I would like to repeat my preferences for
> Python. No, I do not know anything about Ruby, but my point is that I do
> not have reason to know. Apparently, there are good reasons why not to use
> Perl (for example, I have tried to learn it couple of times and it always
> went nowhere :-)), but when I have studied couple of threads on
> comp.lang.python about beauty of Ruby, it felt like the differences are
> really esoteric and doesn't justify switch from Python to Ruby. However, on
> the plus side of Python is its much wider acceptance (like everybody seems
> to be using Python as its embedded language these days -- OOo, KOffice;
> Ubuntu, RedHat (IIRC), and Apple use it as its preferred language for OS
> scripting, etc.) and so it is much probable that user in the empty
> wilderness (aka M$ Windows) will have Python installed than Ruby (although
> Perl is probably still more probable yet).
>
> On the minus side of Python is that it is getting image of being widely
> accepted, so real geek will not sufficiently show his geekines when using
> it. And, honestly, isn't geekish image one of the biggest reason why would
> anybody use vim :-D?
>
> My ?.02.
>
> Matej

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Re: Ruby

Dillon Jones
In reply to this post by Stefan Schmiedl
        While I appreciate all three languages, and would prefer ruby to perl, I feel
python fits my requirements best most of the time.  

        Back in the day when gui meant mostly not-so-pretty grey-and-black
python/tkinter on linux, I had a problem with a network setting via the redhat
system config utilities.  I poked around the source code and, having never
seen python (ever!) I was able to debug the problem, fix the config file that
caused the problem, and get it working.  I didn't even look at a manual or a
python help file.   I'd written quite a bit in perl at that point but would
never have been able to read the code without documentation and find the
source of the error in either perl or ruby without knowing the language or
having a book/document close by.  To this day python is the only language I've
found that an average programmer of another language could learn and
understand to some degree beyond 'hello world' by looking at nothing but the
source code.

        Dig ruby; believe Larry Wall is about as cool as it gets; but prefer to code
and support python over the others any day.

fdj

On Thu, Dec 01, 2005 at 09:38:37PM +0100, Stefan Schmiedl wrote:

> Steve Litt (01.12. 09:44):
>
> > So now instead of discussing whether our utilities should be in Perl or
> > Python, we can discuss the merits of Perl vs Python vs Ruby :-)
>
> Waaaay ahead of the crowd ...
> co-wrote a German ruby book some years ago already :-)
> And, of course, all of my scripts are ruby.
>
> Except for frozenbubble and aisleriot I could live without those "P"
> languages quite nicely :-D
>
> Ruby trivia: Pearl and Ruby are "month stones" in Japan. Ruby's month is
> the successor of Pearl's month.
>
> s.
>
> --
> Stefan Schmiedl
> +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
> |Approximity GmbH               | EDV-Beratung Schmiedl                  |
> |http://www.approximity.com     | Am Bräuweiher 4, 93499 Zandt, Germany  |
> |mailto:[hidden email]  | Tel. (09944) 3068-98, Fax -97          |
> +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
> _______________________________________________
> VimOutliner mailing list
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> http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo/vimoutliner
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Re: Re: Ruby

Matej Cepl-2
In reply to this post by Luis Garcia-Vega
Luis Garcia-Vega wrote:
> Build a Lisp interpreter inside of vim, and then emulate Ruby AND Python.
>
> but then we'd have Emacs. Nevermind.

Except that promised emulation of Python and Ruby in Guile somehow never
materialized -- at least I never found it in my aptitude. :-)

Matej

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the illiterates can read.
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Re: Ruby

Stefan Schmiedl
In reply to this post by Dillon Jones
Dillon Jones (01.12. 21:46):

>
> Back in the day when gui meant mostly not-so-pretty grey-and-black
> python/tkinter on linux, I had a problem with a network setting via
> the redhat system config utilities.  I poked around the source code
> and, having never seen python (ever!) I was able to debug the
> problem, fix the config file that caused the problem, and get it
> working.  I didn't even look at a manual or a python help file.
> I'd written quite a bit in perl at that point but would never have
> been able to read the code without documentation and find the source
> of the error in either perl or ruby without knowing the language or
> having a book/document close by.  To this day python is the only
> language I've found that an average programmer of another language
> could learn and understand to some degree beyond 'hello world' by
> looking at nothing but the source code.

that's funny ... I had about the same experience only the other way
round. I can't find my way around python without the docs but besides
looking up some rarely used library methods, I never touch the docs.

That said, let's not waste time discussing the merits and demerits of
programming languages. Recommending or even requiring add-ons to be
written in a specific language is a ridiculous thing to do anyways.
Especially when you can run your stuff in whatever you like on your
server and let others partake of the results.

The goal is not to find the best scripting language, but to create
a useful toolbox around this amazing invention called vimoutliner.

s.
--
Stefan Schmiedl
+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
|Approximity GmbH               | EDV-Beratung Schmiedl                  |
|http://www.approximity.com     | Am Bräuweiher 4, 93499 Zandt, Germany  |
|mailto:[hidden email]  | Tel. (09944) 3068-98, Fax -97          |
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Re: Ruby

Detlef Steuer
On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 08:42:34 +0100
Stefan Schmiedl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The goal is not to find the best scripting language, but to create
> a useful toolbox around this amazing invention called vimoutliner.

Amen.

Detlef


>
> s.
> --
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Re: Ruby

Stefan Schmiedl
Detlef Steuer (02.12. 09:01):

> On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 08:42:34 +0100
> Stefan Schmiedl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > The goal is not to find the best scripting language, but to create
> > a useful toolbox around this amazing invention called vimoutliner.
>
> Amen.

And that's why I will choose something Truly Arcane for my next project
:-)

s.

--
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+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
|Approximity GmbH               | EDV-Beratung Schmiedl                  |
|http://www.approximity.com     | Am Bräuweiher 4, 93499 Zandt, Germany  |
|mailto:[hidden email]  | Tel. (09944) 3068-98, Fax -97          |
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Re: Re: Ruby

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Matej Cepl-2
On Thursday 01 December 2005 08:07 pm, Matej Cepl wrote:
> On the minus side of Python is that it is getting image of being widely
> accepted, so real geek will not sufficiently show his geekines when using
> it. And, honestly, isn't geekish image one of the biggest reason why would
> anybody use vim :-D?

<Litt blushes> Yes, geekiness is a primary reason I started dabling in Ruby.
In the year 2005 it's just so "geekilly correct", unlike wussy Python or
crazy Perl.

I'll say one thing though. Ruby implements the principle of least surprise
better than ANY language I've ever seen. IMHO Python's still more readable.

But then what do I know -- I use Perl on a daily basis :-)

SteveT

Steve Litt
Founder and acting president: GoLUG
http://www.golug.org
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