Simplified logo concept

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Simplified logo concept

James Beck
Hi all,

I've been playing with this logo for a long time, and I figured it was  
better shared than not. Every time I see the logo, I get an itch to tweak  
it.

So here it is: an idea for a simplified identity (logo and icon).

What are your thoughts?

James

(see attached)

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Tony Mechelynck
On 09/07/13 23:17, James Beck wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been playing with this logo for a long time, and I figured it was
> better shared than not. Every time I see the logo, I get an itch to
> tweak it.
>
> So here it is: an idea for a simplified identity (logo and icon).
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
> James
>
> (see attached)
>
According to http://www.vim.org/trivia.php "there is just one official
Vim logo", but it has a number of variations found at
http://www.vim.org/logos.php

What's wrong with it?


Best regards,
Tony.
--
Paranoia is simply an optimistic outlook on life.

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Edward L. Fox
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Tony Mechelynck
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 09/07/13 23:17, James Beck wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been playing with this logo for a long time, and I figured it was
>> better shared than not. Every time I see the logo, I get an itch to
>> tweak it.
>>
>> So here it is: an idea for a simplified identity (logo and icon).
>>
>> What are your thoughts?
>>
>> James
>>
>> (see attached)
>>
> According to http://www.vim.org/trivia.php "there is just one official Vim
> logo", but it has a number of variations found at
> http://www.vim.org/logos.php
>
> What's wrong with it?

I think he's just trying to follow the latest fashion style: flat design.

> Best regards,
> Tony.
> --
> Paranoia is simply an optimistic outlook on life.
>
>
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Re: Simplified logo concept

Tim Chase
On 2013-07-09 16:04, Edward L. Fox wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
> > What's wrong with it?
>
> I think he's just trying to follow the latest fashion style: flat
> design.

The icons can't help but make me think of

  http://jonyiveredesignsthings.tumblr.com/

in the wake of the new iOS release.  :-)

-tim
...for whom icons are somewhat moot since I run fluxbox with no
desktop manager, so it's just black/blank, and I launch everything
from the console (where I'm vimming 99.99% of the time anyways), via
key-chords, or the pop-up menu.





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Re: Simplified logo concept

Boyko Bantchev
In reply to this post by Tony Mechelynck
> According to http://www.vim.org/trivia.php "there is just one official Vim
> logo", but it has a number of variations found at
> http://www.vim.org/logos.php
>
> What's wrong with it?

As James said, his version is simplified.  I do like it.
I also think that at least some of those previous variations that
you refer to are kitschy (e.g. stars, flames, ...), and perhaps this
is what motivates James's cleaner design.

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Marcin Szamotulski
On 02:39 Wed 10 Jul     , Boyko Bantchev wrote:

> > According to http://www.vim.org/trivia.php "there is just one official Vim
> > logo", but it has a number of variations found at
> > http://www.vim.org/logos.php
> >
> > What's wrong with it?
>
> As James said, his version is simplified.  I do like it.
> I also think that at least some of those previous variations that
> you refer to are kitschy (e.g. stars, flames, ...), and perhaps this
> is what motivates James's cleaner design.
>
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I do like it too :) it is simple and fresh :)

Cheers,
Marcin

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Ben Klein
In reply to this post by Tim Chase
Icons are *very* important. They can be used on t-shirts.

--
b

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 9, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Tim Chase<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2013-07-09 16:04, Edward L. Fox wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
>>> What's wrong with it?
>>
>> I think he's just trying to follow the latest fashion style: flat
>> design.
>
> The icons can't help but make me think of
>
>  http://jonyiveredesignsthings.tumblr.com/
>
> in the wake of the new iOS release.  :-)
>
> -tim
> ...for whom icons are somewhat moot since I run fluxbox with no
> desktop manager, so it's just black/blank, and I launch everything
> from the console (where I'm vimming 99.99% of the time anyways), via
> key-chords, or the pop-up menu.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Simplified logo concept

Tim Chase
On 2013-07-09 18:00, Ben Klein wrote:

>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Tim Chase wrote
>>>> What's wrong with it?
>>>
>>> I think he's just trying to follow the latest fashion style: flat
>>> design.
>>
>> The icons can't help but make me think of
>>
>>  http://jonyiveredesignsthings.tumblr.com/
>>
>> in the wake of the new iOS release.  :-)
>
> Icons are *very* important. They can be used on t-shirts.

Reminds me of this thread:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vim_use@.../msg10408.html

in which my preferred tshirt design mostly just has ":wq!" on the
back in a monospaced green terminal font. :-D

-tim


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Re: Simplified logo concept

Tony Mechelynck
In reply to this post by Boyko Bantchev
On 10/07/13 01:39, Boyko Bantchev wrote:

>> According to http://www.vim.org/trivia.php "there is just one official Vim
>> logo", but it has a number of variations found at
>> http://www.vim.org/logos.php
>>
>> What's wrong with it?
>
> As James said, his version is simplified.  I do like it.
> I also think that at least some of those previous variations that
> you refer to are kitschy (e.g. stars, flames, ...), and perhaps this
> is what motivates James's cleaner design.
>
I mentioned what I saw as "official". The one *I* like best (as a logo,
not an icon) is the one on the "monobook" version of Vim wikia pages,
viz. http://images.wikia.com/vim/images/b/bc/Wiki.png : No stars, no
flames, just the well-known "Vim" and diamond logo.


Best regards,
Tony.
--
The lion and the calf shall lie down together but the calf won't get
much sleep.
                -- Woody Allen

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Ben Klein
In reply to this post by Tim Chase
On Jul 9, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Tim Chase<[hidden email]> wrote:

Reminds me of this thread:

http://www.mail-archive.com/vim_use@.../msg10408.html

in which my preferred tshirt design mostly just has ":wq!" on the
back in a monospaced green terminal font. :-D

I think I have that very shirt (or at least something similar). :) http://www.freewear.org/?page=show_item&id=FW0041

Also: I even remembered to reply correctly this time. Sorry for re-sending the entire conversation (backwards) last time, everybody.

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Re: Simplified logo concept

James Beck
In reply to this post by Tony Mechelynck
> What's wrong with it?
>
>
> Best regards,
> Tony.

I have a few complaints about the original logo.

1. It's very busy (seven colors?!)
2. It doesn't print well (seven colors, hairline borders, gradients)
3. It's inconsistent (some parts are embossed, others not. Shading is done  
in both blue and black.)
4. The font styles ("V" and "im") are different (this makes my eyes twitch)
5. The "m" looks like someone melted it with fire. Inelegant and weird.
6. As a general rule, when loud background texture (green diamond) cuts  
through text, it makes me twitch (see the treatment of "im")

A shocking number of my colleagues have no idea how great Vim is. Some of  
them were surprised to learn Vim has "syntax highlighting, just like  
Eclipse!" I think this ignorance comes from two places: first, they've  
only used vim to modify .bashrc on a server somewhere through Putty, and  
second, the visual identity looks like the program was abandoned 10 years  
ago. One reason I finally decided to post this, was because git recently  
redid their logo (and it looked a lot like some of the designs I was  
playing with), and I think the result reminds people that git is a  
powerful, modern tool. I wanted the same for Vim.

James

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Erik Falor
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 06:22:08AM +0200, James Beck wrote:
> I have a few complaints about the original logo.

[snipped]

> the visual identity looks like the program was abandoned 10 years
> ago.

I couldn't agree more.

I understand that most of us hackers very conscientiously try not to
judge books by their covers, and this tendency leads to very
outdated-looking websites, etc.  While *we* may not be turned-off by a
'90s-style website, we must confront the reality that this is a
stumbling-block to many potential Vimmers.

If we as a community give a care about evangelizing Vim to the rest of
the world (and I really think that all of the T-shirt talk elsewhere
in the thread proves that we do care), it only makes sense to present
Vim in the most attractive way possible.  Even if the "marketing-ness"
of it makes some of us cringe inside.

[snipped]

> One reason I finally decided to post this, was because git recently
> redid their logo (and it looked a lot like some of the designs I was
> playing with), and I think the result reminds people that git is a
> powerful, modern tool. I wanted the same for Vim.

Vim is one of the most actively worked-on open source projects that I
follow.  That fact alone should be a huge selling-point for a potential
user who is thinking about trying a better editor.  Nothing is worse
than falling in love with a decaying, unmaintained program.  A casual
user will not get the impression of Vim's vitality from looking at Vim
itself, nor from www.vim.org.  An updated logo would be a really easy
way to make this point, especially since James has already done all of
the work.

The way I see it, there are really only three alternatives:

    1) you're a WM minimalist who exclusively uses console Vim and
       won't notice the new logo.
    2) you just really, really like the existing icon.
    3) you use gVim, and will appreciate the update.

If you identify with #1, why bother arguing about this?  By definition
you don't care.

If you are in line with #2, well, I just don't get you.

As for #3, aren't many Linux distros already use a non-standard icon
for Vim nowadays?  I have seen images of a Tango-based Vim icon out on
the webs (I genuinely don't know what the other distros are up to; I
build Vim from source on my Gentoo box and use minimalistic WMs with
the console all of the time), and I think MacVim uses a custom glassy
icon (can't afford a Mac, so again, I must plead ignorance). If this
is the case, I must ask why we wouldn't just modernize the icon at the
top of the project?

tl;dr I like James' proposal.

Cheers,

--
Erik Falor                                       http://unnovative.net
Registered Linux User #445632                  http://linuxcounter.net

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Christian Brabandt
In reply to this post by Tim Chase
On Wed, July 10, 2013 01:34, Tim Chase wrote:
> ...for whom icons are somewhat moot since I run fluxbox with no
> desktop manager, so it's just black/blank, and I launch everything
> from the console (where I'm vimming 99.99% of the time anyways), via
> key-chords, or the pop-up menu.

Icons, aren't that those small little thingys, that you are supposed
to click on, but that are always hidden by some application window?

regards,
Christian

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Christian Brabandt
In reply to this post by James Beck
On Wed, July 10, 2013 06:22, James Beck wrote:

>> What's wrong with it?
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Tony.
>
> I have a few complaints about the original logo.
>
> 1. It's very busy (seven colors?!)
> 2. It doesn't print well (seven colors, hairline borders, gradients)
> 3. It's inconsistent (some parts are embossed, others not. Shading is done
> in both blue and black.)
> 4. The font styles ("V" and "im") are different (this makes my eyes
> twitch)
> 5. The "m" looks like someone melted it with fire. Inelegant and weird.
> 6. As a general rule, when loud background texture (green diamond) cuts
> through text, it makes me twitch (see the treatment of "im")

Good points. I don't really like the modern flat style of icons nowadays
(perhaps I am just not used to it yet), but I would appreciate a new
fresh look of the old logo.

This reminds me, that someone posted about a new macvim logo at the
vim mac list some time ago (I don't read that list, just happened to
stumble over it just recently):
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/vim_mac/mR1ZbLfGw9k/UGwkCvt22nIJ

> A shocking number of my colleagues have no idea how great Vim is. Some of
> them were surprised to learn Vim has "syntax highlighting, just like
> Eclipse!" I think this ignorance comes from two places: first, they've
> only used vim to modify .bashrc on a server somewhere through Putty, and
> second, the visual identity looks like the program was abandoned 10 years
> ago. One reason I finally decided to post this, was because git recently
> redid their logo (and it looked a lot like some of the designs I was
> playing with), and I think the result reminds people that git is a
> powerful, modern tool. I wanted the same for Vim.

Yes, renewing the logo sounds like a good idea.

regards,
Christian

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Gautier DI FOLCO
2013/7/10 Christian Brabandt <[hidden email]>
On Wed, July 10, 2013 06:22, James Beck wrote:
>> What's wrong with it?
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Tony.
>
> I have a few complaints about the original logo.
>
> 1. It's very busy (seven colors?!)
> 2. It doesn't print well (seven colors, hairline borders, gradients)
> 3. It's inconsistent (some parts are embossed, others not. Shading is done
> in both blue and black.)
> 4. The font styles ("V" and "im") are different (this makes my eyes
> twitch)
> 5. The "m" looks like someone melted it with fire. Inelegant and weird.
> 6. As a general rule, when loud background texture (green diamond) cuts
> through text, it makes me twitch (see the treatment of "im")

Good points. I don't really like the modern flat style of icons nowadays
(perhaps I am just not used to it yet), but I would appreciate a new
fresh look of the old logo.

This reminds me, that someone posted about a new macvim logo at the
vim mac list some time ago (I don't read that list, just happened to
stumble over it just recently):
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/vim_mac/mR1ZbLfGw9k/UGwkCvt22nIJ

> A shocking number of my colleagues have no idea how great Vim is. Some of
> them were surprised to learn Vim has "syntax highlighting, just like
> Eclipse!" I think this ignorance comes from two places: first, they've
> only used vim to modify .bashrc on a server somewhere through Putty, and
> second, the visual identity looks like the program was abandoned 10 years
> ago. One reason I finally decided to post this, was because git recently
> redid their logo (and it looked a lot like some of the designs I was
> playing with), and I think the result reminds people that git is a
> powerful, modern tool. I wanted the same for Vim.

Yes, renewing the logo sounds like a good idea.

regards,
Christian

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Hello all,

I'm not a contributor of ViM, but I use ViM from a long time (and of course I like it), I think the logo propose by James Beck (nice job) is more beautifull than the old logo, and it would be a good idea to refresh vim.org too.
I'm a web developer so it's easy for me to tell that but, maybe making a public repository in which people could improve vim.org could be a good idea.

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Yukihiro Nakadaira-2
In reply to this post by Ben Klein
By the way, this vim girl illustration could be nice to print t-shirt.  v(・ω・)m
http://blog.imagedrive.jp/diary/2013-03-10/vim-advent-calendar-2012-100th-2
http://blog.imagedrive.jp/diary/2013-06-18/vim-advent-calendar-2012-200th

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Tony Mechelynck
In reply to this post by James Beck
On 10/07/13 06:22, James Beck wrote:

>> What's wrong with it?
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Tony.
>
> I have a few complaints about the original logo.
>
> 1. It's very busy (seven colors?!)
> 2. It doesn't print well (seven colors, hairline borders, gradients)
> 3. It's inconsistent (some parts are embossed, others not. Shading is
> done in both blue and black.)
> 4. The font styles ("V" and "im") are different (this makes my eyes twitch)
> 5. The "m" looks like someone melted it with fire. Inelegant and weird.
> 6. As a general rule, when loud background texture (green diamond) cuts
> through text, it makes me twitch (see the treatment of "im")
>
> A shocking number of my colleagues have no idea how great Vim is. Some
> of them were surprised to learn Vim has "syntax highlighting, just like
> Eclipse!" I think this ignorance comes from two places: first, they've
> only used vim to modify .bashrc on a server somewhere through Putty, and
> second, the visual identity looks like the program was abandoned 10
> years ago. One reason I finally decided to post this, was because git
> recently redid their logo (and it looked a lot like some of the designs
> I was playing with), and I think the result reminds people that git is a
> powerful, modern tool. I wanted the same for Vim.
>
> James
>

"Very busy, seven colors". So what? How many colours are there in the
Firefox logo? How many shades of blue in SeaMonkey's? Personally I don't
prefer drab icons over colourful ones. But of course, /de gustibus et
coloribus non disputandum est/ (Latin: "one mustn't quarrel over tastes
and colours" [i.e. over taste and colour preferences]).

"Some parts are embossed, others not". Right. I'd like it even better
with drop-down shadows around not only V but also im. Also if it were
all in a single nice-looking font: that "im" part of the big logo looks
amateurish to me.

I don't have colleagues anymore so I can't value that "A shocking number
of my colleagues" argument. Maybe I'm too much of a geek to accept or
reject a program by the mere look of its icon. First see what it does
and how I can use it. <span class="offtopic">When I started on
mainframes in the 70s, and even as late as my first PCs (640K, IBM
PC-DOS, no hard disk at first) there were no icons at all, no mouse,
just a command-line, keyboard, and teletype (or teletype-like shell)
display. Doesn't mean that I don't like today's GUIs, I do. But I still
use the shell command-line quite a lot (which nowadays means bash for
me).</span>

<p class="offtopic">
git, a powerful modern tool? Maybe, and so is Emacs. Personally I've
never been able to feel at ease with either of them: give me Mercurial
and Vim any time. Which of course doesn't remove any bit of git and
Emacs's power and usefulness — to other people.
</p>


Best regards,
Tony.
--
ARTHUR:       Now stand aside worthy adversary.
BLACK KNIGHT: (Glancing at his shoulder) 'Tis but a scratch.
ARTHUR:       A scratch?  Your arm's off.
                  "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" PYTHON (MONTY)
PICTURES LTD

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Paul Isambert
In reply to this post by Christian Brabandt
"Christian Brabandt" <[hidden email]> a écrit:

> On Wed, July 10, 2013 06:22, James Beck wrote:
> >> What's wrong with it?
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Tony.
> >
> > I have a few complaints about the original logo.
> >
> > 1. It's very busy (seven colors?!)
> > 2. It doesn't print well (seven colors, hairline borders, gradients)
> > 3. It's inconsistent (some parts are embossed, others not. Shading is done
> > in both blue and black.)
> > 4. The font styles ("V" and "im") are different (this makes my eyes
> > twitch)
> > 5. The "m" looks like someone melted it with fire. Inelegant and weird.
> > 6. As a general rule, when loud background texture (green diamond) cuts
> > through text, it makes me twitch (see the treatment of "im")
>
> Good points. I don't really like the modern flat style of icons nowadays
> (perhaps I am just not used to it yet), but I would appreciate a new
> fresh look of the old logo.

I think the complaints are quite valid too, but I don’t really like
James’s proposal either:

- I think the logos would really fit a detergent. (I do appreciate the
  simplicity, though.)
- Why a slab serif, and why a *slanted* slab serif? For me, that
  contradicts the simplicity of the design; you’re whispering with
  colors and screaming with the font.
- Lowercase initial is trendy; but is that really Vim? I wonder
  whether all-uppercase wouldn’t be better.

As far as I’m concerned, I’d like a simple logo in a simple
yet stately font: a humanist serif or even Roman capitals like Trajan.
After all “Vim” is the accusative of “vis”, meaning “strength, power”,
and all those kinds of properties you associate with our favorite text
editors (and tyrants, too). If the green diamond must be kept in the
background, though, that really makes things hard.

Thank you James for launching the idea and submitting proposals (I
hope my criticism wasn’t too unpleasant).

Best,
Paul

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Re: Simplified logo concept

shawn wilson

I agree with the need to update the logo (and the complaints about the old one).

I would also like to see the web site maintained as a public repo. However, to that end - the one thing I like about old looking web sites is that when I open them up in lynx/links (rare, but when I do this I really need it to work) nothing is lost and I can find what I'm looking for. If anything breaks this, I'm absolutely opposed.

On Jul 10, 2013 5:34 AM, "Paul Isambert" <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Christian Brabandt" <[hidden email]> a écrit:
> On Wed, July 10, 2013 06:22, James Beck wrote:
> >> What's wrong with it?
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Tony.
> >
> > I have a few complaints about the original logo.
> >
> > 1. It's very busy (seven colors?!)
> > 2. It doesn't print well (seven colors, hairline borders, gradients)
> > 3. It's inconsistent (some parts are embossed, others not. Shading is done
> > in both blue and black.)
> > 4. The font styles ("V" and "im") are different (this makes my eyes
> > twitch)
> > 5. The "m" looks like someone melted it with fire. Inelegant and weird.
> > 6. As a general rule, when loud background texture (green diamond) cuts
> > through text, it makes me twitch (see the treatment of "im")
>
> Good points. I don't really like the modern flat style of icons nowadays
> (perhaps I am just not used to it yet), but I would appreciate a new
> fresh look of the old logo.

I think the complaints are quite valid too, but I don’t really like
James’s proposal either:

- I think the logos would really fit a detergent. (I do appreciate the
  simplicity, though.)
- Why a slab serif, and why a *slanted* slab serif? For me, that
  contradicts the simplicity of the design; you’re whispering with
  colors and screaming with the font.
- Lowercase initial is trendy; but is that really Vim? I wonder
  whether all-uppercase wouldn’t be better.

As far as I’m concerned, I’d like a simple logo in a simple
yet stately font: a humanist serif or even Roman capitals like Trajan.
After all “Vim” is the accusative of “vis”, meaning “strength, power”,
and all those kinds of properties you associate with our favorite text
editors (and tyrants, too). If the green diamond must be kept in the
background, though, that really makes things hard.

Thank you James for launching the idea and submitting proposals (I
hope my criticism wasn’t too unpleasant).

Best,
Paul

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Re: Simplified logo concept

Gautier DI FOLCO
2013/7/10 shawn wilson <[hidden email]>

I agree with the need to update the logo (and the complaints about the old one).

I would also like to see the web site maintained as a public repo. However, to that end - the one thing I like about old looking web sites is that when I open them up in lynx/links (rare, but when I do this I really need it to work) nothing is lost and I can find what I'm looking for. If anything breaks this, I'm absolutely opposed.


It is not a problem, we just have to avoid full-js website.

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