Some videos demonstrating potentially new stuff for VO

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Some videos demonstrating potentially new stuff for VO

Herbert Sitz
I ran across VO a few years ago and never got past the learning curve of Vim.  For some reason I gave it another try a few weeks ago and I really liked what I saw.

I went a little crazy today and made a bunch of videos of new stuff I've made for VO.  As a little background, I recently went back and toyed around with my old favorite Grandview (in a DOS compatibility box) and I was amazed at how much functionality that program had, and at how well I remembered the keystrokes for a lot of its main functions.  I used it heavily back in in the early 90's, at least for basic outlining stuff, didn't use much of the PIM stuff.

Anyway, looking from Grandview to VO I see a step up given the power of the underlying Vim, but it seems to me that there's still a lot to do in bringing the functions of a full-featured outliner to VO.  Yes, VO is great and having the outline structure within Vim is wonderful, but there's lots more that can be done.  I'm not talking about stuff that's just frills.  I'm talking about stuff that increases the efficiency of outlining in VO.  As it stands the situation with VO feels a little analogous to the position of a developer who's moved from a procedural language to an object oriented one, but who persists in programming procedurally and not taking advantage of the object orientation.

I've seen a couple people mention that adding functions will somehow "bloat" VO or cause a slowdown in speed.  This is simply not true.  The main vo_base script is tiny at about 20 kilobytes, and it gets loaded only once no matter how many outlines you have open.  Size isn't an issue.  Code that sits in it uncalled (and/or unmapped to any key) won't affect speed of anything.  What can affect speed, especially with larger files, is the syntax definition and highlighting of VO files.  But that's a completely separate issue than mere adding of more outlining-oriented  functionality.

As an aside, all of the videos below were made using a Puppy Linux virtual machine running in Virtual Box on my modest little Asus Eee netbook.  The Linux VM was allocated only 256MB, even for the demo with the 36,000 line file.

Okay, here are the videos I made, once I got started I couldn't stop:

1.  Demonstration of the "Expand without text" function I posted code for in a previous thread.  I wonder you you guys are managing frequent collapsing and expanding of your VO documents without it:
http://www.plainspokenfinancial.com/pre1.htm

2.  Video of the most visible changes I've made to VO: (1) level dependent fold coloring, and (2) independently collapsible text elements.  The text element thing is a big one for me:  text elements are not part of the structure of an outline; they shouldn't be visible when a heading level is collapsed (or should be visible only if you _want_ them to be:
http://www.plainspokenfinancial.com/sidebyside.htm

3.  Video of heading navigation functions and heading numbering.

The navigation functions are:
Move up or down one heading on same level: mapped to alt-up and alt-down
Move to parent of current heading, mapped to alt-left
Move to first child of current heading, mapped to alt-right
http://www.plainspokenfinancial.com/navigation.htm

4. Video of "in-place collapse/expand" and automatic moving of headings.  The in-place collapse/expand function will progressively show more or less of a single heading's substructure as you press the ctrl-right key (to show more) or ctrl-left key (to show less).  The heading movement function is currently mapped to ctrl-alt-<left,up,right, down>
http://www.plainspokenfinancial.com/moving.htm

5.  Video of the text hyperlinking functionality in the Thlnk VIM plugin.  Not just limited to interoutline linking, this looks like a good solution to a problem I know many of you have complained about:
http://www.plainspokenfinancial.com/thlnk.htm

Let me know if you have any comments or questions.  I may be taking VO off in a direction you guys don't want to go.  If so, that's fine.  If you have some interest in integrating new stuff like this (and a lot more I've got ideas for) then that would be better.

Regards,

Herb
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Re: Some videos demonstrating potentially new stuff for VO

Steve Litt
Hi Herb,

The fact that you video'ed your demos makes things much, much clearer. You're
going to have to explain how you did these videos so we all can do them. It's
sad, but before today I'd never seen anyone else use VO. When you changed the
fold level with the VO menu, I had no idea you could do that -- I thought the
only choice was ,,1-,,9.

Of all the things you did, the thing that strikes me as a must-have is the
node navigation. Possessing that, I could do MUCH more with zo, zc, <<, >>,
dd and p. I've been looking for that for a long time but forgot to ask and
didn't have the time to program it myself. It's wonderful.

Thanks for this wonderful programming.

I've added some comments interspersed with your post...

On Thursday 29 January 2009 10:46:17 pm hsitz wrote:

> Okay, here are the videos I made, once I got started I couldn't stop:
>
> 1.  Demonstration of the "Expand without text" function I posted code for
> in a previous thread.  I wonder you you guys are managing frequent
> collapsing and expanding of your VO documents without it:
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/pre1.htm

Expand without text is a good thing as long as it's just an option, Adding
comma comma commands to collapse all text and expand all text would round out
what you've done already.

>
> 2.  Video of the most visible changes I've made to VO: (1) level dependent
> fold coloring, and (2) independently collapsible text elements.  The text
> element thing is a big one for me:  text elements are not part of the
> structure of an outline; they shouldn't be visible when a heading level is
> collapsed (or should be visible only if you _want_ them to be:
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/sidebyside.htm

These are things I don't think I need. I like to see the fact that the text is
there, especially if it's something like this:

level1
        : Steve was here
        : and now is gone
        Urban poetry
                Chicago
                Newark
        : but left his name
        : to carry on
        Retro poetry

In the preceding, I sure as heck want to know there's some text between Urban
Poetry and Retro Poetry. Also, I like that nice green color that tells me
instantly that a headline is collapsed.

>
> 3.  Video of heading navigation functions and heading numbering.
>
> The navigation functions are:
> Move up or down one heading on same level: mapped to alt-up and alt-down
> Move to parent of current heading, mapped to alt-left
> Move to first child of current heading, mapped to alt-right
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/navigation.htm

I don't need the headline numbering -- I've got scripts to add that as a
filter.

What I DO need, like yesterday, is the Alt+arrow node navigation stuff, and a
great further addition would be alt+Home, which brings me up to the level 1
headline of the current tree (instead of pressing Alt+left until I get to
level 1).

I'm currently writing a 42,000 word and counting book, in VimOutliner, and I
sure enough can use node to node navigation.
>
> 4. Video of "in-place collapse/expand" and automatic moving of headings.
> The in-place collapse/expand function will progressively show more or less
> of a single heading's substructure as you press the ctrl-right key (to show
> more) or ctrl-left key (to show less).  The heading movement function is
> currently mapped to ctrl-alt-<left,up,right, down>
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/moving.htm

The in place collapse and expand are pretty cool. I could use that. The
Ctrl+Alt+Arrow is handy, although right now I do that with dd, movement, and
then p, or << or >> to promote and demote. I'm a little scared of causing
damage with your move commands.
>
> 5.  Video of the text hyperlinking functionality in the Thlnk VIM plugin.
> Not just limited to interoutline linking, this looks like a good solution
> to a problem I know many of you have complained about:
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/thlnk.htm

This video didn't play, but instead displayed your home page. I'd like to see
it though. If we replace the current interoutline linking, we need to do it
in a way that current systems don't break. I think we once had a discussion
on a way we could do that, and I offered to write a conversion script.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US

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Re: Some videos demonstrating potentially new stuff for VO

Noel Henson
In reply to this post by Herbert Sitz
Herb,

Excellent work. As soon as I get a bit of time, we can work on getting
these into VO along with many other tools that have been created.

Noel

On Thursday 29 January 2009, hsitz wrote:

> I ran across VO a few years ago and never got past the learning curve of
> Vim. For some reason I gave it another try a few weeks ago and I really
> liked what I saw.
>
> I went a little crazy today and made a bunch of videos of new stuff I've
> made for VO.  As a little background, I recently went back and toyed
> around with my old favorite Grandview (in a DOS compatibility box) and I
> was amazed at how much functionality that program had, and at how well I
> remembered the keystrokes for a lot of its main functions.  I used it
> heavily back in in the early 90's, at least for basic outlining stuff,
> didn't use much of the PIM stuff.
>
> Anyway, looking from Grandview to VO I see a step up given the power of
> the underlying Vim, but it seems to me that there's still a lot to do in
> bringing the functions of a full-featured outliner to VO.  Yes, VO is
> great and having the outline structure within Vim is wonderful, but
> there's lots more that can be done.  I'm not talking about stuff that's
> just frills.  I'm talking about stuff that increases the efficiency of
> outlining in VO.  As it stands the situation with VO feels a little
> analogous to the position of a developer who's moved from a procedural
> language to an object oriented one, but who persists in programming
> procedurally and not taking advantage of the object orientation.
>
> I've seen a couple people mention that adding functions will somehow
> "bloat" VO or cause a slowdown in speed.  This is simply not true.  The
> main vo_base script is tiny at about 20 kilobytes, and it gets loaded
> only once no matter how many outlines you have open.  Size isn't an
> issue.  Code that sits in it uncalled (and/or unmapped to any key) won't
> affect speed of anything.  What can affect speed, especially with larger
> files, is the syntax definition and highlighting of VO files.  But
> that's a completely separate issue than mere adding of more
> outlining-oriented  functionality.
>
> As an aside, all of the videos below were made using a Puppy Linux
> virtual machine running in Virtual Box on my modest little Asus Eee
> netbook.  The Linux VM was allocated only 256MB, even for the demo with
> the 36,000 line file.
>
> Okay, here are the videos I made, once I got started I couldn't stop:
>
> 1.  Demonstration of the "Expand without text" function I posted code
> for in a previous thread.  I wonder you you guys are managing frequent
> collapsing and expanding of your VO documents without it:
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/pre1.htm
>
> 2.  Video of the most visible changes I've made to VO: (1) level
> dependent fold coloring, and (2) independently collapsible text
> elements.  The text element thing is a big one for me:  text elements
> are not part of the structure of an outline; they shouldn't be visible
> when a heading level is collapsed (or should be visible only if you
> _want_ them to be:
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/sidebyside.htm
>
> 3.  Video of heading navigation functions and heading numbering.
>
> The navigation functions are:
> Move up or down one heading on same level: mapped to alt-up and alt-down
> Move to parent of current heading, mapped to alt-left
> Move to first child of current heading, mapped to alt-right
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/navigation.htm
>
> 4. Video of "in-place collapse/expand" and automatic moving of headings.
> The in-place collapse/expand function will progressively show more or
> less of a single heading's substructure as you press the ctrl-right key
> (to show more) or ctrl-left key (to show less).  The heading movement
> function is currently mapped to ctrl-alt-<left,up,right, down>
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/moving.htm
>
> 5.  Video of the text hyperlinking functionality in the Thlnk VIM
> plugin. Not just limited to interoutline linking, this looks like a good
> solution to a problem I know many of you have complained about:
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/thlnk.htm
>
> Let me know if you have any comments or questions.  I may be taking VO
> off in a direction you guys don't want to go.  If so, that's fine.  If
> you have some interest in integrating new stuff like this (and a lot
> more I've got ideas for) then that would be better.
>
> Regards,
>
> Herb



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Re: Some videos demonstrating potentially new stuff for VO

Ross Boylan
In reply to this post by Herbert Sitz
Is the code for this available?  I'd like to use some of the new
functions.

Also, should there be sound with the videos?  I don't hear anything.

Thanks.
Ross
On Thu, 2009-01-29 at 19:46 -0800, hsitz wrote:
...

>
> 1.  Demonstration of the "Expand without text" function I posted code for in
> a previous thread.  I wonder you you guys are managing frequent collapsing
> and expanding of your VO documents without it:
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/pre1.htm
>
> 2.  Video of the most visible changes I've made to VO: (1) level dependent
> fold coloring, and (2) independently collapsible text elements.  The text
> element thing is a big one for me:  text elements are not part of the
> structure of an outline; they shouldn't be visible when a heading level is
> collapsed (or should be visible only if you _want_ them to be:
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/sidebyside.htm
>
> 3.  Video of heading navigation functions and heading numbering.
>
> The navigation functions are:
> Move up or down one heading on same level: mapped to alt-up and alt-down
> Move to parent of current heading, mapped to alt-left
> Move to first child of current heading, mapped to alt-right
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/navigation.htm
>
> 4. Video of "in-place collapse/expand" and automatic moving of headings.
> The in-place collapse/expand function will progressively show more or less
> of a single heading's substructure as you press the ctrl-right key (to show
> more) or ctrl-left key (to show less).  The heading movement function is
> currently mapped to ctrl-alt-<left,up,right, down>
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/moving.htm
>
> 5.  Video of the text hyperlinking functionality in the Thlnk VIM plugin.
> Not just limited to interoutline linking, this looks like a good solution to
> a problem I know many of you have complained about:
> http://wwww.plainspokenfinancial.com/thlnk.htm
>
> Let me know if you have any comments or questions.  I may be taking VO off
> in a direction you guys don't want to go.  If so, that's fine.  If you have
> some interest in integrating new stuff like this (and a lot more I've got
> ideas for) then that would be better.
>
> Regards,
>
> Herb

--
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185 Berry St #5700                               [hidden email]
Dept of Epidemiology and Biostatistics           fax: (415) 514-8150
University of California, San Francisco
San Francisco, CA 94107-1739                     hm:  (415) 550-1062

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Re: Some videos demonstrating potentially new stuff for VO

John Porubek
In reply to this post by Herbert Sitz
So I thought I'd finally get around to watching the videos and they're
gone! Bummer. The whole site was down for a while. Now it's back but
the videos are gone.

Herb, any plans to make them available again? Or did anybody else
download local copies they could send me? Actually, the ideal
situation would be to make them available on the VimOutliner website.

Thanks,

John

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:46 PM, hsitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
<snip>
>
> I went a little crazy today and made a bunch of videos of new stuff I've
> made for VO.
<snip>
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Re: Some videos demonstrating potentially new stuff for VO

Noel Henson
If it's a bandwidth issue for Herb, we can always host them on the
vimoutliner.org server. I have plenty of bandwidth and storage available.

Noel


On Wednesday 08 April 2009, John Porubek wrote:

> So I thought I'd finally get around to watching the videos and they're
> gone! Bummer. The whole site was down for a while. Now it's back but
> the videos are gone.
>
> Herb, any plans to make them available again? Or did anybody else
> download local copies they could send me? Actually, the ideal
> situation would be to make them available on the VimOutliner website.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:46 PM, hsitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > I went a little crazy today and made a bunch of videos of new stuff
> > I've made for VO.
>
> <snip>
> _______________________________________________
> VimOutliner mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.lists.vimoutliner.org/mailman/listinfo/vimoutliner



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------------------------------------------------------------------
  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

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