Terminal-specific query sequences

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Terminal-specific query sequences

iler.ml
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Marc Haisenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

As you can see, the UNIX way of handling output is severely broken and always
has been because there's just no way that the terminal can tell the system
and/or application what it CAN support.

Wrong. 
Vt* terminals, xterm, konsole, uterm all have ESC Z query.
Vim makes use of ESC Z query. But there's more to it.

konsole and uterm have more query sequences. You can query colors
and current codepage.But Vim does not implement terminal-specific quering currently.

Maybe somebody can make plugin or patch to define and use terminal-specific
queries, especially for konsole and uterm.

If vim had support for terminal-specific queries (even if by vimscript), vim would
automatically run better in those terminals.

It is pity that vim does not make use of terminal-specific queries. That would
give terminal developers incentive to standardize and expand, queries.

Yakov

[1] And even switch codepages. Thst makes it possible to
automatically synchronize vim's encoding and  terminals
codepage. Or at least detect and report inconsistency to the user.

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Re: Terminal-specific query sequences

iler.ml


On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Yakov Lerner <iler.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Marc Haisenko <[hidden email]> wrote:

As you can see, the UNIX way of handling output is severely broken and always
has been because there's just no way that the terminal can tell the system
and/or application what it CAN support.

Wrong. 
Vt* terminals, xterm, konsole, uterm all have ESC Z query.
Vim makes use of ESC Z query. But there's more to it.

konsole and uterm have more query sequences. You can query colors
and current codepage.But Vim does not implement terminal-specific quering currently.

Maybe somebody can make plugin or patch to define and use terminal-specific
queries, especially for konsole and uterm.

If vim had support for terminal-specific queries (even if by vimscript), vim would
automatically run better in those terminals.

It is pity that vim does not make use of terminal-specific queries. That would
give terminal developers incentive to standardize and expand, queries.

Yakov

[1] And even switch codepages. Thst makes it possible to
automatically synchronize vim's encoding and  terminals
codepage. Or at least detect and report inconsistency to the user.

Hello Bram,

Would you add to the  Wishlist support for open-ended terminal-specific quering
(konsole, uterm, probably others) for quering terminal's colors and
codepage for exampple, and ability to configure into vim new query
strings and response processing logic ?

Yakov

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Re: Terminal-specific query sequences

Bram Moolenaar


Yakov Lerner wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Yakov Lerner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Marc Haisenko <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> As you can see, the UNIX way of handling output is severely broken and
> >> always
> >> has been because there's just no way that the terminal can tell the system
> >> and/or application what it CAN support.
> >
> >
> > Wrong.
> > Vt* terminals, xterm, konsole, uterm all have ESC Z query.
> > Vim makes use of ESC Z query. But there's more to it.
> >
> > konsole and uterm have more query sequences. You can query colors
> > and current codepage.But Vim does not implement terminal-specific quering
> > currently.
> >
> > Maybe somebody can make plugin or patch to define and use terminal-specific
> > queries, especially for konsole and uterm.
> >
> > If vim had support for terminal-specific queries (even if by vimscript),
> > vim would
> > automatically run better in those terminals.
> >
> > It is pity that vim does not make use of terminal-specific queries. That
> > would
> > give terminal developers incentive to standardize and expand, queries.
> >
> > Yakov
> >
> > [1] And even switch codepages. Thst makes it possible to
> > automatically synchronize vim's encoding and  terminals
> > codepage. Or at least detect and report inconsistency to the user.
> >
>
> Hello Bram,
>
> Would you add to the  Wishlist support for open-ended terminal-specific
> quering
> (konsole, uterm, probably others) for quering terminal's colors and
> codepage for exampple, and ability to configure into vim new query
> strings and response processing logic ?

I have no idea how this would work.  We currently support a few extra
things for xterm, and it's already quite complicated.  I doubt there is
a generic way to do these things.  We might end up with all kinds of
terminal-specific code inside Vim, which is a bad thing.

I've suggested a few times that either terminal emulaters should decide
on one way of doing these things (follwing xterm might not be a bad
solution).  Or have some generic mechanism (library) that handles it.

One specific thing that complicates all this: Having one channel from
the terminal to the application means keyboard input and special
sequences are mixed.  This causes lots of trouble, esp. if you run an
external command in between.  The external command will get escape
sequences it doesn't know and the result is unpredictable (e.g., color
response being used as if it were typed input).

--
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     address.

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
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