Thoughts on the new website structure

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Thoughts on the new website structure

Noel Henson
Everyone,

I have attached an OTL of the goals and basic structure for the new
website. I'm looking for some feedback. So... What did I screw up?

TIA for the feedback!

Noel

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  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.


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Re: Thoughts on the new website structure

Steve Litt
On Saturday 06 February 2010 01:38:16 Noel Henson wrote:
> Everyone,
>
> I have attached an OTL of the goals and basic structure for the new
> website. I'm looking for some feedback. So... What did I screw up?
>
> TIA for the feedback!
>
> Noel
>

Goals->Tutorials should contain info on VO-easy. Yeah, I'm getting around to
it any time now :-)

Goals->Sample_outlines should contain at least one outline that's really
source code -- EMDL, the new VO site source outline, etc.

Goals->Links to other VO information: Be sure to include these articles from
Troubleshooters.Com and elsewhere:

http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/199911/199911.htm: Discussion of
outlining -- non-software specific. In a way, this is a piece of VO history.

http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/200310/200310.htm: How VO was born, how
maintainership was passed on, and how VO became great.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8810772602188234059#: Steve Litt gives
an 80 minute video pep talk on outlining, with a section on VO.

http://blog.nominet.org.uk/tech/2007/04/25/vimoutliner-for-beginners/: 
VimOutliner for Beginners: Very complimentary to VO

http://mostlycli.blogspot.com/2007/09/get-organized-with-vimyes-vim.html: "Get
Organized with Vim... yes, VIM" sings praises of VO, gives the VO URL, and
tells how to do basic VO operations.

http://perens.com/works/software/Outline/: Bruce Perens' VO conversion scripts

http://technocrat.net/d/2006/10/31/9800/: Bruce Perens discusses using VO as
the source for presentations

HTH

SteveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

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Re: Thoughts on the new website structure

David J Patrick-2
In reply to this post by Noel Henson
Noel Henson wrote:
> Everyone,
>
> I have attached an OTL of the goals and basic structure for the new
> website. I'm looking for some feedback. So... What did I screw up?

Well I wouldn't call it "screw-up", but I think not including forums
would be a mistake. As an example, there was discussion on the mailing
list, some time late summer (?) where we discussed using VO for all
sorts of things, like goal-setting (for example). Now, do you suppose I
can find that thread ? no. Someone new to VO will never ever stumble
across it. Without a forum, Ideas will have no place to gestate. Even if
we find the old thread, and resume the discussion, it will quietly sink
down to obscurity, like many of the others before it.
If we have forums, on the other hand, then as we discuss something, the
"thread" can aggregate, and can be easily referred to, as those kooky
suggestions slowly grow into real features. Someone just learning of VO
will be able to look at those forum discussions, and see where we're
coming from and going to.
That the mailing list archive may be available via gmane.org, is not a
reasonable alternative. I won't be crawling through it looking for past
discussions, if I can help it, and I actually care. I'll search through
my own vast mail archives, but it's a needle-in-haystack time.
For ongoing development, especially those things that are early and
formative, we need forums.
This actually makes the mailing list more useful, as we don't have to
track and maintain ideas or suggestions there, and can use it for
real-time discussion between developers.

my $0.02 CDN
djp
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Re: Thoughts on the new website structure

Noel Henson
In reply to this post by Steve Litt
On Saturday 06 February 2010, Steve Litt wrote:

> On Saturday 06 February 2010 01:38:16 Noel Henson wrote:
> > Everyone,
> >
> > I have attached an OTL of the goals and basic structure for the new
> > website. I'm looking for some feedback. So... What did I screw up?
> >
> > TIA for the feedback!
> >
> > Noel
>
> Goals->Tutorials should contain info on VO-easy. Yeah, I'm getting
> around to it any time now :-)

I'll be glad to include it as soon as it exists. Did I send you the outline
of what needs to be done to make it work?

>
> Goals->Sample_outlines should contain at least one outline that's really
> source code -- EMDL, the new VO site source outline, etc.

??? I don't quite understand that one. But there are no legal constraints
on registering. I'm going to use the benevolent dictator model. If someone
gets out of hand, they're booted. So you can register and add EDML (and
maybe htlmslides) as projects.

>
> Goals->Links to other VO information: Be sure to include these articles
> from Troubleshooters.Com and elsewhere:
>
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/199911/199911.htm: Discussion of
> outlining -- non-software specific. In a way, this is a piece of VO
> history.
>
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/200310/200310.htm: How VO was born,
> how maintainership was passed on, and how VO became great.
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8810772602188234059#: Steve Litt
> gives an 80 minute video pep talk on outlining, with a section on VO.
>
> http://blog.nominet.org.uk/tech/2007/04/25/vimoutliner-for-beginners/:
> VimOutliner for Beginners: Very complimentary to VO
>
> http://mostlycli.blogspot.com/2007/09/get-organized-with-vimyes-vim.html
>: "Get Organized with Vim... yes, VIM" sings praises of VO, gives the VO
> URL, and tells how to do basic VO operations.
>
> http://perens.com/works/software/Outline/: Bruce Perens' VO conversion
> scripts
>
> http://technocrat.net/d/2006/10/31/9800/: Bruce Perens discusses using
> VO as the source for presentations
>

Those are excellent additions. Are you willing to register and add them to
the site? Perhaps with a little intro line for each? I'm trying to minimize
the work I actually have to do. I already spent great amounts of time on
VO.

> HTH

It does. Thanks!

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  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

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Re: Thoughts on the new website structure

Steve Litt
On Saturday 06 February 2010 11:57:00 Noel Henson wrote:

> On Saturday 06 February 2010, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Saturday 06 February 2010 01:38:16 Noel Henson wrote:
> > > Everyone,
> > >
> > > I have attached an OTL of the goals and basic structure for the new
> > > website. I'm looking for some feedback. So... What did I screw up?
> > >
> > > TIA for the feedback!
> > >
> > > Noel
> >
> > Goals->Tutorials should contain info on VO-easy. Yeah, I'm getting
> > around to it any time now :-)
>
> I'll be glad to include it as soon as it exists. Did I send you the outline
> of what needs to be done to make it work?
>
> > Goals->Sample_outlines should contain at least one outline that's really
> > source code -- EMDL, the new VO site source outline, etc.
>
> ??? I don't quite understand that one. But there are no legal constraints
> on registering. I'm going to use the benevolent dictator model. If someone
> gets out of hand, they're booted. So you can register and add EDML (and
> maybe htlmslides) as projects.
>
> > Goals->Links to other VO information: Be sure to include these articles
> > from Troubleshooters.Com and elsewhere:
> >
> > http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/199911/199911.htm: Discussion of
> > outlining -- non-software specific. In a way, this is a piece of VO
> > history.
> >
> > http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/200310/200310.htm: How VO was born,
> > how maintainership was passed on, and how VO became great.
> >
> > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8810772602188234059#: Steve Litt
> > gives an 80 minute video pep talk on outlining, with a section on VO.
> >
> > http://blog.nominet.org.uk/tech/2007/04/25/vimoutliner-for-beginners/:
> > VimOutliner for Beginners: Very complimentary to VO
> >
> > http://mostlycli.blogspot.com/2007/09/get-organized-with-vimyes-vim.html
> >
> >: "Get Organized with Vim... yes, VIM" sings praises of VO, gives the VO
> >
> > URL, and tells how to do basic VO operations.
> >
> > http://perens.com/works/software/Outline/: Bruce Perens' VO conversion
> > scripts
> >
> > http://technocrat.net/d/2006/10/31/9800/: Bruce Perens discusses using
> > VO as the source for presentations
>
> Those are excellent additions. Are you willing to register and add them to
> the site? Perhaps with a little intro line for each? I'm trying to minimize
> the work I actually have to do. I already spent great amounts of time on
> VO.

Yes, always assuming no indemnification clause. However, my next 7 days are
spoken for, so please remind me by responding to this email 1 week from today.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Recession Relief Package
http://www.recession-relief.US
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

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Re: Thoughts on the new website structure

Noel Henson
In reply to this post by David J Patrick-2
On Saturday 06 February 2010, David J Patrick wrote:

> Noel Henson wrote:
> > Everyone,
> >
> > I have attached an OTL of the goals and basic structure for the new
> > website. I'm looking for some feedback. So... What did I screw up?
>
> Well I wouldn't call it "screw-up", but I think not including forums
> would be a mistake. As an example, there was discussion on the mailing
> list, some time late summer (?) where we discussed using VO for all
> sorts of things, like goal-setting (for example). Now, do you suppose I
> can find that thread ? no. Someone new to VO will never ever stumble
> across it. Without a forum, Ideas will have no place to gestate. Even if
> we find the old thread, and resume the discussion, it will quietly sink
> down to obscurity, like many of the others before it.
> If we have forums, on the other hand, then as we discuss something, the
> "thread" can aggregate, and can be easily referred to, as those kooky
> suggestions slowly grow into real features. Someone just learning of VO
> will be able to look at those forum discussions, and see where we're
> coming from and going to.
> That the mailing list archive may be available via gmane.org, is not a
> reasonable alternative. I won't be crawling through it looking for past
> discussions, if I can help it, and I actually care. I'll search through
> my own vast mail archives, but it's a needle-in-haystack time.
> For ongoing development, especially those things that are early and
> formative, we need forums.
> This actually makes the mailing list more useful, as we don't have to
> track and maintain ideas or suggestions there, and can use it for
> real-time discussion between developers.
>
> my $0.02 CDN
> djp
> _______________________________________________

You got it. Also, after looking at the forums code, it seems that the
forums may be able to substitute for the mailing list. I don't mean to for
everyone to use the forum. But there seem to be hooks so that those that
want to access a particular forum as a mailing (like the current VO list),
can.

Thanks, DJP

Noel

--

------------------------------------------------------------------
  Noel Henson
  www.noels-lab.com Chips, firmware and embedded systems
  www.vimoutliner.org Work fast. Think well.

_______________________________________________
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