VO-based todo manager?

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Re: VO-based todo manager: tkdo 0.4

Steve Litt
On Sunday 11 May 2008 03:32, Scott Scriven wrote:
> I just put out v0.4.  And, I noticed...  It's been almost a month
> since anything else happened on this list.  I hope I'm not
> derailing any on-topic conversation people might have had.

Not at all. VO is now a mature, stable product so the only thing to discuss is
new ways to use it -- you know, like yours.

SteveT
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Re: VO-based todo manager: tkdo 0.4

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Scott Scriven-2
On Sunday 11 May 2008 03:32, Scott Scriven wrote:
> I just put out v0.4.  And, I noticed...  It's been almost a month
> since anything else happened on this list.  I hope I'm not
> derailing any on-topic conversation people might have had.
>
> Anyway, the tarball is here:
>
>     http://toykeeper.net/programs/tkdo/files/tkdo-0.4.tar.gz

Scott -- I just forgot a doctor's appointment. Does tkdo have a way to write
on the screen "hey idiot, you have a doctor's appointment at 2:15 today!!!"?

Thanks

SteveT

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Re: VO-based todo manager: tkdo 0.4

Poojan Wagh
Could it export to an ical file that you can subscribe to with a calendar program?

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Steve Litt <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sunday 11 May 2008 03:32, Scott Scriven wrote:
> I just put out v0.4.  And, I noticed...  It's been almost a month
> since anything else happened on this list.  I hope I'm not
> derailing any on-topic conversation people might have had.
>
> Anyway, the tarball is here:
>
>     http://toykeeper.net/programs/tkdo/files/tkdo-0.4.tar.gz

Scott -- I just forgot a doctor's appointment. Does tkdo have a way to write
on the screen "hey idiot, you have a doctor's appointment at 2:15 today!!!"?

Thanks

SteveT

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--
Poojan

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Re: VO-based todo manager: tkdo 0.4

Scott Scriven-2
In reply to this post by Steve Litt
* Poojan Wagh <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Could it export to an ical file that you can subscribe to with
> a calendar program?

Sure, I don't see why not.  It's not something which had occurred
to me, but it should be relatively easy to add.

I've added it to the bug tracker:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/tkdo/+bug/231189


* Steve Litt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Scott -- I just forgot a doctor's appointment. Does tkdo have a
> way to write on the screen "hey idiot, you have a doctor's
> appointment at 2:15 today!!!"?

Yeah, though it's still a little less convenient than I'd like.  
Forgive me if I think out loud a bit...  I'm trying to think of
ways to make this stuff faster/easier.

One way is to edit your task file and add something like...

[_] doctor's appt, 2:15
        ; TKDO: D=2008-05-16@14:15 I=100 L=1d

My keypresses would be something like...

    vim ~/te<tab>/pe<tab>/tod<tab>
      (vim ~/text/personal/todo.otl)
    <down, pgdn, or other navigation>
    odoctor's appt<esc>
    ,,cb
    o<tab>tkd dtd<bksp*5>14:15 I=100 L=1d<esc>
    :wq

    I count ~75 keypresses, including tab completes and vim
    aliases and such.  (16+5+15+4+31+4)

Or, using the GUI, you could...

  - move the cursor to a line in the right task file
  - hit 'g'
  - enter "doctor's appt", and make it a task with ',,cb'
  - save/quit
  - highlight the new task
  - change the importance, with 'i100'
  - hit 'd'
    - check 'due date', enter the appt time
    - enter a lead time, if you care
    - click OK, or tab to it and hit space

The keypresses are...

    t     (my shell alias for tkdo)
    /per  (filter for 'personal')
    g
    <down, pgdn, or other navigation>
    odoctor's appt<esc>
    :wq
    /doc
    i100
    l1d
    d<space><tab><tab>14<tab>15
    <tab*8><space>

    I count ~64 keypresses (2+5+1+5+15+4+5+5+4+9+9).

There are several things about that I'd like to improve...  it
doesn't actually take very long in practice, but it's still more
complicated than I'd like.

I think these would help:

  - add 'o'/'O' in the GUI, to add a new task just after/before
    the current task.  This saves a round trip to gvim.  The new
    task could copy its sibling's attributes too, so it might
    save some other data entry.
  - bind ctrl-enter (or similar) to 'OK' in all dialogs, to avoid
    the 8 tab presses in the due date dialog
  - make checkboxes in the due date dialog check themselves when
    appropriate

These would get it down to ~46 keys.

Handling importance for due tasks a little differently might help
too.  Currently, it rises from 0 (at beginning of lead time) to N
(when due), and then continues to rise to N*1.5 (overdue) if not
completed.

Should it hit N*1.5 when due, instead of overdue?  This means it
wouldn't be necessary to set a higher importance value to make it
more visible before it's due.


-- Scott
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Re: VO-based todo manager: tkdo 0.4

bold
Scott Scriven <vimoutliner <at> toykeeper.net> writes:

> One way is to edit your task file and add something like...
>
> [_] doctor's appt, 2:15
> ; TKDO: D=2008-05-16 <at> 14:15 I=100 L=1d
>
> My keypresses would be something like...
>
>     vim ~/te<tab>/pe<tab>/tod<tab>
>       (vim ~/text/personal/todo.otl)
>     <down, pgdn, or other navigation>
>     odoctor's appt<esc>
>     ,,cb
>     o<tab>tkd dtd<bksp*5>14:15 I=100 L=1d<esc>
>     :wq
>
>     I count ~75 keypresses, including tab completes and vim
>     aliases and such.  (16+5+15+4+31+4)

You could have an inbox.otl which you start with an alias. Saves at least 10
keystrokes and is in line with GTD. The inbox is one of the most important GTD
aspects for me. Dropping something in your inbox should be really fast.

On my N800 I made a vim session which starts all todo otls in tabs with just one
tap. Inbox.otl is the current tab and <Shift-G> gets me to the bottom where I
can add the appt. (:x would save you another keystroke :) Tapping on a
touchscreen will never beat a keyboard though.

This inbox is included in my tkdo settings so important things will show up
right away. I process my inbox with tkdo and fall back to my vim todo session if
I have to move tasks from the inbox to a specific task file.

>
> Should it hit N*1.5 when due, instead of overdue?  This means it
> wouldn't be necessary to set a higher importance value to make it
> more visible before it's due.
>

I think it is fine the way it is though I am not sure that the 100 limit is
useful. Without it you can have really really important tasks with a higher
importance shoot to the top of the list.

Cheers, Boudewijn


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Re: Re: VO-based todo manager: tkdo 0.4

Scott Scriven-2
* bold <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You could have an inbox.otl which you start with an alias.

Yeah, but I was focusing on the case where the user hasn't
planned ahead that much.  And, well, I try to avoid having an
'inbox' outline, because I already have too many GTD buckets.

I'm not really structured enough to follow strict GTD.  That,
really, is one of the main reasons I created TKDO...  I'm messy,
and wanted a tool to help me manage the mess.  I've now got 641
tasks on my master list, and I still have a bunch of old buckets
left to import.

> Dropping something in your inbox should be really fast.

FWIW, I added the o/O keys today.  They add a new item
after/before the current task.  It copies most of the task
properties too, to reduce data entry.

The patch is available, but I'm playing with some launchpad
features so it's not actually released yet.  The dev branch is
readable, though:

  https://code.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/tkdo/add_vi_o_key
  or:  bzr branch lp:~toykeeper/tkdo/add_vi_o_key

I've queued it for merging into the main branch, but I'm not sure
if launchpad will do that for me, or if I need to do it.

> I think it is fine the way it is though I am not sure that the
> 100 limit is useful. Without it you can have really really
> important tasks with a higher importance shoot to the top of
> the list.

I could make the 100 configurable.  I suspect some people might
like it to be only 0-10, and others might want a much bigger
range...  The idea behind the hard limit was to avoid priority
inflation, but I suppose there's no reason not to make the limit
a config option.  :)

Filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/tkdo/+bug/231867

I may still add a "due bonus" though...  it would add another
multiplier to 'due' or 'fixed recurring' tasks, to make it go
higher on the list before it's due.


-- Scott
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Re: Re: VO-based todo manager: tkdo 0.4

Lucas Gonzalez Santa Cruz
In reply to this post by bold
Anyone has experience with VO+GTD and sublaptops like eeepc?  Now that would make me happy!

Thanks!

Lucas
(new email lucas.gonzalez.sc@gmail.com - i guess i'll have to change my subscription to this list too)

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Re: Re: VO-based todo manager: tkdo 0.4

Tim Roberts
Lucas González wrote:
> Anyone has experience with VO+GTD and sublaptops like eeepc?  Now that
> would make me happy!

My eee PC is a very cool little machine.  After just a few minutes of
following scripts that I found online, I can now bring up a full KDE
desktop.  It's a standard x86 PC, so gvim runs just fine, and VO should
just slip in.

There are only two downsides.  First is the 800x480 screen; many
applications today assume at least 1024x768, so you do a lot of
scrolling.  Second is the battery life.  I got this machine for taking
notes, replacing my HP Jornada 820, for which I can no longer purchase
replacement batteries.  I would routinely get 10 hours of battery life
from the Jornada, but the eee doesn't seem to go beyond 3.  I wouldn't
mind carrying a big old battery pack, if one were available, but for
now, I carry two small batteries, and switch partway through meetings.

--
Tim Roberts, [hidden email]
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

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VO-based todo manager: tkdo 0.4.1

Scott Scriven-2
In reply to this post by Scott Scriven-2
It's been a while.  This is the latest:

    http://toykeeper.net/programs/tkdo/files/tkdo-0.4.1.tar.gz

I've been busy, so this update has only some small updates.
What has changed since 0.4:

  General:
    + Made max and default importance configurable.
    * Fixed bug: Not-yet-due tasks in a 'next' group hid their successors.
  CLI:
    * Made 'cal' command show due dates, sort by date, and show sleeping tasks.
  GUI:
    + Added 'add task' functions.


-- Scott
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TKDO iCal export

Scott Scriven-2
In reply to this post by Poojan Wagh
* Poojan Wagh <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Could it export to an ical file that you can subscribe to with
> a calendar program?

This feature is in progress.  Details are at:

  https://bugs.launchpad.net/tkdo/+bug/231189
  https://code.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/tkdo/add-ical

I may need some extra data on what people expect to see in their
calendar programs, since the data TKDO tracks isn't entirely the
same as what iCalendar expects.  For example, TKDO tasks have a
due date, but a VEVENT needs both a start and end date.  TKDO has
task files and projects, and I'm not yet sure what type of
categorization iCalendar has.

The iCalendar format provides VTODO items and VEVENTs, and both
may have a VALARM.  The VEVENTs will definitely show up on a
calendar, but when I imported VTODO items into Evolution, they
were only visible on the todo list.  Which type would be better?

Some basic data on iCalendar is here:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar

The format itself is simple enough; I just don't know how best to
map TKDO's data into iCalendar data.  For now, it creates a
VEVENT for each task, with an end time matching the task's due
date and a start time one hour earlier.  The task's full title is
used as a summary.

So, better ideas?


-- Scott
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