Vim 7 snapshot 163

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Vim 7 snapshot 163

Bram Moolenaar

To make maintenance simpler I have removed the support for Mac OS 9 and
the KDE GUI.  Everybody appears to use OS/X now.  The KDE GUI never
worked very well and the maintainers have moved on to work on Yzis.

Let me know if there are undesired side effects or when some more things
can be removed.

--
GUARD #1:  What -- a swallow carrying a coconut?
ARTHUR:    It could grip it by the husk!
GUARD #1:  It's not a question of where he grips it!  It's a simple question
           of weight ratios!  A five ounce bird could not carry a 1 pound
           coconut.
                                  The Quest for the Holy Grail (Monty Python)

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\        download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
 \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl         ///
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Re: Vim 7 snapshot 163

Aschwin Marsman
On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

> To make maintenance simpler I have removed the support for Mac OS 9 and
> the KDE GUI.  Everybody appears to use OS/X now.  The KDE GUI never
> worked very well and the maintainers have moved on to work on Yzis.

I can understand why you removed it but one of the great things of vim
is that it can be used from a PDA (I had it on my Linux Agenda, because
of a bad LCD display not in use anymore, I'm looking at getting a Sharp
Zaurus) to the Amiga to the S390 etc. I understand you can only spent
your time once.

Any vim users with Yzis experience? If I look at the schedule
http://www.yzis.org/schedule
Milestone 4 (summer 2005)
is still ongoing.

It looks like a lot of duplicated effort to me, with yet another scripting
language:

-----------------8<----------------8<----------------8<---------------

Yzis a brand new editor inspired by vim. Yzis aims to be a powerful, fast
editor with all of Vim's features and hopefully, at some point, more.

In Yzis, the core editing functionality is placed in a library, and
interfaces are written on top of that. As of now, there are frontends for
KDE and ncurses. Especially the KDE-interface provides an easy-to-use
interface for users and allows you to have tabs for different buffers and
a GUI that allows you to change things like colour schemes and syntax
highlighting easily, while still letting (g)vim users feel at home.

By using the powerful scripting language Lua, you can also easily extend
yzis' functionality with scripts.

With an editing-engine clearly separated from the GUI, the different
interfaces can be written to be closely integrated in their respective
environments. The KDE frontend, kyzis, can be seamlessly embedded in KDE
apps like Kdevelop.

libyzis is published under the terms of the LGPL.
kyzis and nyzis are published under the terms of the GPL.
-----------------8<----------------8<----------------8<---------------

Are there contributions back from Yzis to vim?

> Let me know if there are undesired side effects or when some more things
> can be removed.

Best regards,

Aschwin Marsman

--
[hidden email]              http://www.marsman.org
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Yzis still alive? (Re: Vim 7 snapshot 163)

Aschwin Marsman
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Aschwin Marsman wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
>
> Any vim users with Yzis experience? If I look at the schedule
> http://www.yzis.org/schedule
> Milestone 4 (summer 2005)
> is still ongoing.

I looked at the mailing list archives, newest developer message
is from september, newest user message is from august. Is the
Yzis project still alive?

Best regards,

Aschwin Marsman

--
[hidden email]              http://www.marsman.org
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Yzis still alive? (Re: Vim 7 snapshot 163)

Bram Moolenaar

Aschwin Marsman wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Aschwin Marsman wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
> >
> > Any vim users with Yzis experience? If I look at the schedule
> > http://www.yzis.org/schedule
> > Milestone 4 (summer 2005)
> > is still ongoing.

Hey, I didn't write that!

> I looked at the mailing list archives, newest developer message
> is from september, newest user message is from august. Is the
> Yzis project still alive?

Most projects have a quick start and then run into the bulky/difficult
work, which is when progress slows down a lot.  I think that's what is
happening.  Whether they get going again remains to be seen...

--
Computers are not intelligent.  They only think they are.

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\        download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
 \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl         ///
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Re: Vim 7 snapshot 163

Bram Moolenaar
In reply to this post by Aschwin Marsman

Aschwin Marsman wrote:

> On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
>
> > To make maintenance simpler I have removed the support for Mac OS 9 and
> > the KDE GUI.  Everybody appears to use OS/X now.  The KDE GUI never
> > worked very well and the maintainers have moved on to work on Yzis.
>
> I can understand why you removed it but one of the great things of vim
> is that it can be used from a PDA (I had it on my Linux Agenda, because
> of a bad LCD display not in use anymore, I'm looking at getting a Sharp
> Zaurus) to the Amiga to the S390 etc. I understand you can only spent
> your time once.

If you want to use Vim on Mac OS 9 you can use Vim 6.4.  I don't see
much of a problem in that.  It's a stable platform, you would not need
fancy new features there.

You can still use Vim with KDE, of course, but not with the Qt library.
Using GTK should work for everyone.  It's more free anyway.

> Are there contributions back from Yzis to vim?

I haven't noticed something.

--
ARTHUR:    Will you ask your master if he wants to join my court at Camelot?!
GUARD #1:  But then of course African swallows are not migratory.
GUARD #2:  Oh, yeah...
GUARD #1:  So they couldn't bring a coconut back anyway...
                                  The Quest for the Holy Grail (Monty Python)

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\        download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
 \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl         ///
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Re: Vim 7 snapshot 163

Aschwin Marsman
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
> >
> If you want to use Vim on Mac OS 9 you can use Vim 6.4.  I don't see
> much of a problem in that.  It's a stable platform, you would not need
> fancy new features there.

Agreed.

> You can still use Vim with KDE, of course, but not with the Qt library.
> Using GTK should work for everyone.  It's more free anyway.

Let's not get into those discussions, there is already a project to merge
a lot of those libraries (I tried to compile a Gnome application, when
you don't have the correct development library versions you get in a
-real- dependancy hell). It's not free in my opion, it costs a lot of
spare (free) time.

Is the problem the C++ dependancy needed for Qt or is it just that it is
unmaintainted?

Best regards,

Aschwin Marsman

--
[hidden email]              http://www.marsman.org
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RE: Vim 7 snapshot 163

Vince Negri (ASL)
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
Can anyone else get through to cvs.sourceforge.net? I'm getting timeout
errors - usually I dont' have a problem.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [SMTP:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:28 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Vim 7 snapshot 163
>
>
> To make maintenance simpler I have removed the support for Mac OS 9
> and
> the KDE GUI.  Everybody appears to use OS/X now.  The KDE GUI never
> worked very well and the maintainers have moved on to work on Yzis.
>
> Let me know if there are undesired side effects or when some more
> things
> can be removed.
>
> --
>
>  /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net
> \\\
> ///        sponsor Vim, vote for features --
> http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
> \\\        download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org
> ///
>  \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl
> ///

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RE: Vim 7 snapshot 163

Vince Negri (ASL)
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
> Aschwin Marsman [SMTP:[hidden email]] wrote:
>
> Is the problem [with the KDE port] the C++ dependancy needed for Qt or
is it just that it is
> unmaintainted?

AFAIK it's the maintenance issue, not the C++ dependancy. Generally, if
someone is willing to step up to the plate and actively maintain
something,
then it'll stay - the existence of an active maintainer (a) shows that
there is someone who really wants the port and (b) stops the port being
a drain on Bram's limited time.




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Re: Vim 7 snapshot 163

Chris Allen
In reply to this post by Vince Negri (ASL)
On 07/12/05, Vince Negri <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Can anyone else get through to cvs.sourceforge.net? I'm getting timeout
> errors - usually I dont' have a problem.

I get these *all* *the* *time*.  It is unusual for me to get immediate
service from cvs.sourceforge.net.  I usually have to re-try at least
once, often as many as 5 times, and service is rarely fast even when
it does work.  This affects multiple projects, so I assume the
mirroring system just isn't up to demand.

Sometimes, it seems, you just get what you pay for.

Chris Allen
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RE: Vim 7 snapshot 163

Zdenek Sekera
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Allen [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: 07 December 2005 15:49
> To: Vince Negri
> Cc: vim developers list
> Subject: Re: Vim 7 snapshot 163
>
> On 07/12/05, Vince Negri <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Can anyone else get through to cvs.sourceforge.net? I'm
> getting timeout
> > errors - usually I dont' have a problem.
>
> I get these *all* *the* *time*.

Me too.

> It is unusual for me to get immediate
> service from cvs.sourceforge.net.

Idem.

> I usually have to re-try at least
> once, often as many as 5 times, and service is rarely fast even when
> it does work.

Exactly.

> This affects multiple projects, so I assume the
> mirroring system just isn't up to demand.
>
> Sometimes, it seems, you just get what you pay for.

Arrgh.

---Zdenek
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Re: Yzis still alive? (Re: Vim 7 snapshot 163)

Aschwin Marsman
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
> Aschwin Marsman wrote:

> > I looked at the mailing list archives, newest developer message
> > is from september, newest user message is from august. Is the
> > Yzis project still alive?
>
> Most projects have a quick start and then run into the bulky/difficult
> work, which is when progress slows down a lot.  I think that's what is
> happening.  Whether they get going again remains to be seen...

But doesn't this leave kde users with a bad choice?

All Qt/KDE related vim options seam to have vanished.

How bad was the KDE/Qt support in vim7? Is it fixable?

Best regards,

Aschwin Marsman

--
[hidden email]              http://www.marsman.org
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Re: Yzis still alive? (Re: Vim 7 snapshot 163)

Bram Moolenaar

Aschwin Marsman wrote:

> > > I looked at the mailing list archives, newest developer message
> > > is from september, newest user message is from august. Is the
> > > Yzis project still alive?
> >
> > Most projects have a quick start and then run into the bulky/difficult
> > work, which is when progress slows down a lot.  I think that's what is
> > happening.  Whether they get going again remains to be seen...
>
> But doesn't this leave kde users with a bad choice?
>
> All Qt/KDE related vim options seam to have vanished.

The KDE GUI version that uses the Qt library was removed, yes.

> How bad was the KDE/Qt support in vim7?

Depending on the environment Vim would hang on startup, not show
any text and have resizing problems.

> Is it fixable?

Of course it's fixable.  The GTK version works just fine under KDE.  But
if nobody does the work and there is no hope for someone doing it then I
give up.

--
A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems.
                                        Paul Erdos
A computer programmer is a device for turning coffee into bugs.
                                        Bram Moolenaar

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\        download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org        ///
 \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://www.ICCF.nl         ///