Vim 8 pre-announcement

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Vim 8 pre-announcement

Bram Moolenaar

Hello Vim users,

Work on Vim 8.0 is coming close to an end.  I hope version 8.0 can be
released in about two weeks.

This is a last chance to modify new features in a way that is not
backwards compatible.  Once 8.0 is out we can't make changes that would
break plugins.

An overview of new features can be found in:
https://github.com/vim/vim/blob/master/runtime/doc/version8.txt
A version with links (but a day older):
http://vimhelp.appspot.com/version8.txt.html

Please review the new features, try them out and report what should be
changed on the vim-dev maillist.  Of course you should also report bugs
you find.

Happy Vimming!


PS. If you are interested in meeting Vim users: Vimfest is happening in
Berlin Sept. 16-18.  http://vimfest.org


--
How To Keep A Healthy Level Of Insanity:
9. As often as possible, skip rather than walk.

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\  an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org        ///
 \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org    ///

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

Tony Mechelynck
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Bram Moolenaar <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello Vim users,
>
> Work on Vim 8.0 is coming close to an end.  I hope version 8.0 can be
> released in about two weeks.
>
> This is a last chance to modify new features in a way that is not
> backwards compatible.  Once 8.0 is out we can't make changes that would
> break plugins.
>
> An overview of new features can be found in:
> https://github.com/vim/vim/blob/master/runtime/doc/version8.txt

IIUC, ":help version8.txt" in the latest (today's) runtime files gives
the same as the above, with the usual Vim hotlinks: double-click a
help tag, or put the cursor on it and hit Ctrl-]

The current version8.txt is dated 2016 Aug 16 at the end of its first line.

> A version with links (but a day older):
> http://vimhelp.appspot.com/version8.txt.html
>
> Please review the new features, try them out and report what should be
> changed on the vim-dev maillist.  Of course you should also report bugs
> you find.
>
> Happy Vimming!
>
>
> PS. If you are interested in meeting Vim users: Vimfest is happening in
> Berlin Sept. 16-18.  http://vimfest.org
>
>
> --
> How To Keep A Healthy Level Of Insanity:
> 9. As often as possible, skip rather than walk.
>
>  /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
> ///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
> \\\  an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org        ///
>  \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org    ///
>
Best regards,
Tony.

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

thinca
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
Hi Bram,

2016-08-17 1:43 GMT+09:00 Bram Moolenaar <[hidden email]>:

>
> Hello Vim users,
>
> Work on Vim 8.0 is coming close to an end.  I hope version 8.0 can be
> released in about two weeks.
>
> This is a last chance to modify new features in a way that is not
> backwards compatible.  Once 8.0 is out we can't make changes that would
> break plugins.
>
> An overview of new features can be found in:
> https://github.com/vim/vim/blob/master/runtime/doc/version8.txt
> A version with links (but a day older):
> http://vimhelp.appspot.com/version8.txt.html
>
> Please review the new features, try them out and report what should be
> changed on the vim-dev maillist.  Of course you should also report bugs
> you find.
>
> Happy Vimming!
>
>
> PS. If you are interested in meeting Vim users: Vimfest is happening in
> Berlin Sept. 16-18.  http://vimfest.org
>
>
> --
> How To Keep A Healthy Level Of Insanity:
> 9. As often as possible, skip rather than walk.
>
>  /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
> ///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
> \\\  an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org        ///
>  \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org    ///
>
> --
> --
> You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist.
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:help job-term says:

                        *job-term*
"term": "open"        Start a terminal and connect the job
            stdin/stdout/stderr to it.
            NOTE: Not implemented yet!

This is not implemented yet.  Is this not implemented in Vim 8.0?

Thanks,
thinca

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

skywind3000
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
Bram:
> Hello Vim users,
>
> Work on Vim 8.0 is coming close to an end.  I hope version 8.0 can be
> released in about two weeks.
>
> This is a last chance to modify new features in a way that is not
> backwards compatible.  Once 8.0 is out we can't make changes that would
> break plugins.

Can we have a binary mode in channels ? Which could be used to implement
a virtual terminal inside vim in VimScript.

According to the ":help channel", There is a "raw" mode in channels, but it
will treat the whole message as a string, not a binary data.

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

Bryan Richter
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 06:43:47PM +0200, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

>
> Hello Vim users,
>
> Work on Vim 8.0 is coming close to an end.  I hope version 8.0 can be
> released in about two weeks.
>
> This is a last chance to modify new features in a way that is not
> backwards compatible.  Once 8.0 is out we can't make changes that would
> break plugins.
>
> An overview of new features can be found in:
> https://github.com/vim/vim/blob/master/runtime/doc/version8.txt
These are exciting changes! However, after reading through the help
text for 'packages', I was rather surprised by a few things. Primarily
the last advantage listed:

    A package can contain plugins that are automatically loaded on
    startup and ones that are only loaded when needed with `:packadd`.

As it currently stands, there are a variety of 'plugin managers' that,
it would seem, could be superseded by 'packages'. Unfortunately, of
all of the dozens of plugins I have enjoyed managing with these
managers,

 - None are compatible with 'packages' because of the design of this
   "advantage" (using start/ and opt/).
 - None need it
 - Maintaining backward compatibility looks troubling, to say the
   least

The elegance of existing package managers is that plugins *are*
packages. 'packages' breaks that elegance.

In summary, every plugin I use today is not compatible with
'packages'. When vim8 is released, they will all have to be updated.
But I don't think they will be updated to support 'packages'. Instead,
I suspect their documentation will be updated to say, "Don't use
'packages'".

Thus, I am very interested to learn of the rationale for these design
decisions.

Sorry if this has been discussed to death elsewhere. This is the
second major release of vim that I've "lived through", but I'm new to
the mailing list. :)

-Bryan

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

LCD 47
On 17 August 2016, Bryan Richter <[hidden email]> wrote:
[...]
> In summary, every plugin I use today is not compatible with
> 'packages'.
[...]

    All plugins are compatible with packages.  You just need to move
them from where you used to put them.

    /lcd

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

Bryan Richter
On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 02:11:03PM +0300, LCD 47 wrote:
> On 17 August 2016, Bryan Richter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
> > In summary, every plugin I use today is not compatible with
> > 'packages'.
> [...]
>
>     All plugins are compatible with packages.  You just need to move
> them from where you used to put them.

Ok, I've seen some of the poor leaps I was making. Current packages
are, in fact, compatible with 'packages'. Proof:

With pathogen:

    packages=(
      a
      b
      ...)
    mkdir -p ~/.vim/bundle
    cd !$
    for p in $packages; do
      git clone $package
    done

With packages:

    packages=(
      a
      b
      ...)
    for p in $packages; do
        mkdir -p ~/.vim/pack/$package/start
        cd !$
        git clone $package
    done

What is still true, however, is that any package designed for
'packages' will be incompatible with all current plugin managers,
since they are unaware of the start/opt subdirectories.

Newer versions of the managers can, of course, be modified to support
both old- and new-style packages — but it's still a little unfortunate
that there will be such a thing as "old- and new-style packages".

I retract my shock and horror and ask that it be replaced with a
passing dismay.

Thanks.

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

Xavier Noria
On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Bryan Richter <[hidden email]> wrote:

    packages=(
      a
      b
      ...)
    for p in $packages; do
        mkdir -p ~/.vim/pack/$package/start
        cd !$
        git clone $package
    done
 
From the description of the feature I imagined one could basically have a local bundle:

    ~/.vim/pack/bundle/start

where you just throw individual plugins in a similar manner as how you do with pathogen.vim, and expect proper packages to appear and have their own directory.

Maybe people that have already used packages have some best practices in mind.

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

Nicola
On 2016-08-17 14:14:52 +0000, Xavier Noria said:

> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Bryan Richter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     packages=(
>       a
>       b
>       ...)
>     for p in $packages; do
>         mkdir -p ~/.vim/pack/$package/start
>         cd !$
>         git clone $package
>     done
>  
> From the description of the feature I imagined one could basically have
> a local bundle:
>
>     ~/.vim/pack/bundle/start
>
> where you just throw individual plugins in a similar manner as how you
> do with pathogen.vim, and expect proper packages to appear and have
> their own directory.
>
> Maybe people that have already used packages have some best practices in mind.

You may search for the thread "Packages: best practices?" from last
March, where I outlined my ideas.

Nicola


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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

LCD 47
In reply to this post by Bryan Richter
On 17 August 2016, Bryan Richter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 02:11:03PM +0300, LCD 47 wrote:
> > On 17 August 2016, Bryan Richter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > [...]
> > > In summary, every plugin I use today is not compatible with
> > > 'packages'.
> > [...]
> >
> >     All plugins are compatible with packages.  You just need to move
> > them from where you used to put them.
>
> Ok, I've seen some of the poor leaps I was making. Current packages
> are, in fact, compatible with 'packages'. Proof:
>
> With pathogen:
>
>     packages=(
>       a
>       b
>       ...)
>     mkdir -p ~/.vim/bundle
>     cd !$
>     for p in $packages; do
>       git clone $package
>     done
>
> With packages:
>
>     packages=(
>       a
>       b
>       ...)
>     for p in $packages; do
>         mkdir -p ~/.vim/pack/$package/start
>         cd !$
>         git clone $package
>     done

    Or like this:

        packages=(
            a
            b
            ...
        )
        mkdir -p ~/.vim/pack/bundle/start
        cd !$
        for p in $packages; do
            git clone "$p"
        done

> What is still true, however, is that any package designed for
> 'packages' will be incompatible with all current plugin managers,
> since they are unaware of the start/opt subdirectories.
[...]

    No.  You really should read the discussion on vim_dev.  While the
current implementation didn't make everybody happy, plugins designed for
"packages" don't need to be incompatible with existing plugin managers.

    /lcd

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

Roland Puntaier
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
Hello Bram,

On 8/16/2016 6:43 PM, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

> Hello Vim users,
>
> Work on Vim 8.0 is coming close to an end.  I hope version 8.0 can be
> released in about two weeks.
>
> This is a last chance to modify new features in a way that is not
> backwards compatible.  Once 8.0 is out we can't make changes that would
> break plugins.
>
> An overview of new features can be found in:
> https://github.com/vim/vim/blob/master/runtime/doc/version8.txt
> A version with links (but a day older):
> http://vimhelp.appspot.com/version8.txt.html
>
> Please review the new features, try them out and report what should be
> changed on the vim-dev maillist.  Of course you should also report bugs
> you find.
>
> Happy Vimming!
>
>
> PS. If you are interested in meeting Vim users: Vimfest is happening in
> Berlin Sept. 16-18.  http://vimfest.org

I was wondering whether you could also include into Vim 8 the following patch
(the original reason for pull request https://github.com/vim/vim/pull/543,
which you can reject, since the langmap part doesn't seem to have a chance in, anyway)
The behavior this patch tries to achieve is given by the test case in the patch.

diff --git src/getchar.c src/getchar.c
index 1c170cc..ce68a2f 100644
--- src/getchar.c
+++ src/getchar.c
@@ -2144,12 +2144,15 @@ vgetorpeek(int advance)
                 /*
                  * Only consider an entry if the first character
                  * matches and it is for the current state.
-                 * Skip ":lmap" mappings if keys were mapped.
                  */
                 if (mp->m_keys[0] == c1
                     && (mp->m_mode & local_State)
-                    && ((mp->m_mode & LANGMAP) == 0
-                    || typebuf.tb_maplen == 0))
+                     /* && ((mp->m_mode & LANGMAP) == 0 ||
typebuf.tb_maplen == 0)
+                      * Used to skip ":lmap" mappings for keymap'ed
keys here,
+                      *   but the result of the keymap is not placed in
the register,
+                      *   so the register content needs to be remapped
here.
+                      */
+                   )
                 {
 #ifdef FEAT_LANGMAP
                 int    nomap = nolmaplen;
diff --git src/testdir/test_digraph.vim src/testdir/test_digraph.vim
index 9550085..3578ced 100644
--- src/testdir/test_digraph.vim
+++ src/testdir/test_digraph.vim
@@ -450,6 +450,20 @@ func! Test_loadkeymap()
   bw!
 endfunc
 
+func! Test_registerkeymap()
+  if !has('keymap')
+    return
+  endif
+  new
+  set keymap=russian-jcukenwin
+  set iminsert=1
+  call feedkeys("qqods\<esc>qdd@q", 'tx')
+  call assert_equal("вы", getline('.'))
+  " reset keymap and encoding option
+  set keymap=
+  bw!
+endfunc
+
 func! Test_digraph_cmndline()
   " Create digraph on commandline
   " This is a hack, to let Vim create the digraph in commandline mode


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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

Bram Moolenaar
In reply to this post by skywind3000

Skywind3000 wrote:

> > Hello Vim users,
> >
> > Work on Vim 8.0 is coming close to an end.  I hope version 8.0 can be
> > released in about two weeks.
> >
> > This is a last chance to modify new features in a way that is not
> > backwards compatible.  Once 8.0 is out we can't make changes that would
> > break plugins.
>
> Can we have a binary mode in channels ? Which could be used to implement
> a virtual terminal inside vim in VimScript.
>
> According to the ":help channel", There is a "raw" mode in channels, but it
> will treat the whole message as a string, not a binary data.

Raw mode is nearly binary.  The only limitation I'm aware of is that it
can't handle NUL bytes.  And since there is no way to deal with binary
data anyway in Vim script, it's probably the only thing possible.

An alternative is NL mode, then you get lines at a time where NUL bytes
have been changed to NL bytes.  But it will be stuck waiting for the
next NL.

--
This planet has -- or rather had -- a problem, which was this: most
of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time.
Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these
were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of
paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green
pieces of paper that were unhappy.
                -- Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\  an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org        ///
 \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org    ///

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

Nikolay Aleksandrovich Pavlov
2016-08-18 0:17 GMT+03:00 Bram Moolenaar <[hidden email]>:

>
> Skywind3000 wrote:
>
>> > Hello Vim users,
>> >
>> > Work on Vim 8.0 is coming close to an end.  I hope version 8.0 can be
>> > released in about two weeks.
>> >
>> > This is a last chance to modify new features in a way that is not
>> > backwards compatible.  Once 8.0 is out we can't make changes that would
>> > break plugins.
>>
>> Can we have a binary mode in channels ? Which could be used to implement
>> a virtual terminal inside vim in VimScript.
>>
>> According to the ":help channel", There is a "raw" mode in channels, but it
>> will treat the whole message as a string, not a binary data.
>
> Raw mode is nearly binary.  The only limitation I'm aware of is that it
> can't handle NUL bytes.  And since there is no way to deal with binary
> data anyway in Vim script, it's probably the only thing possible.

Neovim handled this just fine from the very beginning: just callback
receives not a string, but a `readfile(,'b')`-style list. Though it
led to some confusion (line `"abc\n"` may be received as `['abc', '']`
or `['ab']` and `['c', '']`, but some plugin authors thought that
Neovim is waiting for line to finish, so `'ab'` in the second example
is the whole line), this is the only normal way to represent binary
data in VimL. Another variant is a list like `[0x61, 0x62, 0x63,
0x0A]` which has very high overhead.

>
> An alternative is NL mode, then you get lines at a time where NUL bytes
> have been changed to NL bytes.  But it will be stuck waiting for the
> next NL.
>
> --
> This planet has -- or rather had -- a problem, which was this: most
> of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time.
> Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these
> were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of
> paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green
> pieces of paper that were unhappy.
>                 -- Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
>
>  /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
> ///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
> \\\  an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org        ///
>  \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org    ///
>
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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

Bram Moolenaar
In reply to this post by Roland Puntaier

Roland Puntaier wrote:

> I was wondering whether you could also include into Vim 8 the following patch
> (the original reason for pull request https://github.com/vim/vim/pull/543,
> which you can reject, since the langmap part doesn't seem to have a chance in, anyway)
> The behavior this patch tries to achieve is given by the test case in
> the patch.

This is the wrong solution, it is not backwards compatible and will
cause problems.

The todo list mentions the right solution:

- in vgetorpeek() apply langmap to the typeahead buffer and put the result in
  a copy-buffer, only when langmap is appropriate for the current mode. Then
  check for mapping and let gotchars() work on the copy-buffer.
- Remove LANGMAP_ADJUST() in other parts of the code.  Make sure the mode is
  covered by the above change.
So that replaying the register doesn't use keymap/langmap and still does the
same thing.

I know this is much more difficult to implement, but we should not
include a bad hack for that reason.

--
If you put 7 of the most talented OSS developers in a room for a week
and asked them to fix a bug in a spreadsheet program, in 1 week
you'd have 2 new mail readers and a text-based web browser.

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- [hidden email] -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///        sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\  an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org        ///
 \\\            help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org    ///

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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

skywind3000
In reply to this post by Bram Moolenaar
Bram:

> Work on Vim 8.0 is coming close to an end.  I hope version 8.0 can be
> released in about two weeks.
>
> This is a last chance to modify new features in a way that is not
> backwards compatible.  Once 8.0 is out we can't make changes that would
> break plugins.
>


Visual C++ 6 can play a sound when build stop.

so Can I have a command ':bell' to ring the bell to notify myself that my async-build job has finished and I should check the quickfix output now while I am focusing on editing or navigating source.



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Re: Vim 8 pre-announcement

skywind3000
> Bram:

>
> > Work on Vim 8.0 is coming close to an end.  I hope version 8.0 can be
> > released in about two weeks.
> >
> > This is a last chance to modify new features in a way that is not
> > backwards compatible.  Once 8.0 is out we can't make changes that would
> > break plugins.
> >
>
>
> Visual C++ 6 can play a sound when build stop.
>
> so Can I have a command ':bell' to ring the bell to notify myself that my async-build job has finished and I should check the quickfix output now while I am focusing on editing or navigating source.
afplay or other command line utilities could be used to play a .wav file in the desktop gvim, but there is no way to make a voice in a terminal vim.

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