Vim manual
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Hash: SHA1 On 10/04/2012 16:59, Andre Majorel wrote: > On 2012-04-05 22:32 +0100, Phil Dobbin wrote: > >> There doesn't seem to have been much of a positive response however to >> the idea in general so taking that into account if the vim list is >> ambivalent towards it, I'm not so sure it'll pan out with anyone else. >> >> It wouldn't take an Everest type effort to typeset it to a degree (Lulu >> accept pdf files) & it should, of course, look as well set as possible. > > A straight conversion to PostScript of the help files would not > be very difficult but it wouldn't be very good either. > > I've written a hack that darkens the colours and replaces the > default font by something less rotten than courier (my beef is > not with the fixed spacing, it is with that particular font). > > psbind -2 to print 2-up (4 pages per sheet). > > To do : a form-feed per chapter, global page numbering and > everything else I'm forgetting. Maybe a page number after each > link but that would mean reflowing. > > The manual is not very useful without the reference, IMO. > had much time). I'm still very keen on the idea however so if you want maybe we can pool resources (along with anybody else of course)? Cheers, Phil... - -- But masters, remember that I am an ass. Though it be not written down, yet forget not that I am an ass. Wm. Shakespeare - Much Ado About Nothing -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: §auto-key-locate cert pka ldap hkp://keys.gnupg.net Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPhGGbAAoJEKpMeDHWT5ADcJQH/1txoH3bveWjzqf1zV0gwl9x gvOjKVtlR6Xj1cEjKQD77+ZCMYR6MwcTdCgEmZA7TnIxzjf9UYkgBvSXkUhzF3xe 0EUINaz2KtBWVrhFa0apjoSKa265GgUhb1WDJyiqshAafmOvyMKmdnUu4B5YAbW+ EcQ9kmr8nevPkZpquvwSh3voOgnIMQd4T4zNQhzFWhCz7uQiLi+NgF1mDfHweq7L yHW/x5rRA6WMqOVHrIfFDwi7T5zMHKhDrFaD5kZpXxqmkG5tbD/ELZ9CwSgO1dip PSuRxux2XINzcjV2mbixtV0SlQtBeAUE/IeEOYOpo4U7hr1fCSWDTriJhmUiMKs= =olUF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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Hash: SHA1 On 10/04/2012 18:12, shawn wilson wrote: > I think beautifying vimdoc would be a good thing (though I don't really > dig the dead tree version). I think maybe even expanding it so that it's > more book like (maybe with examples from the list / web) might even be a > good thing. > > I think a starting point would be to decide on a document format (tex > probably?) and a conversion process so that the book is easily updated > with the upstream? ... and a git for this to live (someone's github > probably). > > I worry about the process of design by committee though... if I have a > pull request where I use some font, who decides if its good or not? with a name that is non-specific to me. If it was to be made into a Vimdoc repo & named as such specific to say this list, it could be extra work handling pull requests although I think that that may be a good thing as that would help with the adding of examples & such if that idea was decided upon & better in general for the building of the book. I think the design by committee wouldn't be a problem. Input is good, natural & healthy & I think Bram should be the final arbiter after all. Putting the documents (manual & reference) into tex I think is the best way to go & will result in a much better looking final PDF from which to print. Cheers, Phil... > On Apr 10, 2012 12:36 PM, "Phil Dobbin" <[hidden email] > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: > > On 10/04/2012 16:59, Andre Majorel wrote: > >> On 2012-04-05 22:32 +0100, Phil Dobbin wrote: > >>> There doesn't seem to have been much of a positive response > however to >>> the idea in general so taking that into account if the vim list is >>> ambivalent towards it, I'm not so sure it'll pan out with anyone > else. >>> >>> It wouldn't take an Everest type effort to typeset it to a degree > (Lulu >>> accept pdf files) & it should, of course, look as well set as > possible. > >> A straight conversion to PostScript of the help files would not >> be very difficult but it wouldn't be very good either. > >> I've written a hack that darkens the colours and replaces the >> default font by something less rotten than courier (my beef is >> not with the fixed spacing, it is with that particular font). > >> psbind -2 to print 2-up (4 pages per sheet). > >> To do : a form-feed per chapter, global page numbering and >> everything else I'm forgetting. Maybe a page number after each >> link but that would mean reflowing. > >> The manual is not very useful without the reference, IMO. > > > I've also been looking at Pandoc (been pretty busy of late so haven't > had much time). > > I'm still very keen on the idea however so if you want maybe we can pool > resources (along with anybody else of course)? Comment: §auto-key-locate cert pka ldap hkp://keys.gnupg.net Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPhG+/AAoJEKpMeDHWT5ADg5oH/0kBEtwrySExCsoLaiTvpKkE YIc0ws4/ljQ62C5hw5/g8WzWuHpE/jdjBMQQtk3bbUJGiOcs8PMjXxjH+GACuThE paQ9B8Mzvp7wsMOiYTJUBM3nQPSKD+owmWoGKWJXMvh13h4bWN9FEJHMECfjf/oa T19pJOntCxMX6j6ESf9KsNaO4ukfyUl/BjqwDUkoc2Cl0OfA3p5FdwtCudo7fMQg K7/7KX2xXsR/HEm9cKxmUX0NY/P/w9vJh7RRaVvSwsWszQyDQQPw32GLmdKp+4KV UjGu2u+S9PlZHR6bArG+9dlz4Jcx5F3QXS20x7V8/+FNbG3DRx8Rkfbz2vv/vyU= =Yycf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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In reply to this post by Andre Majorel-7
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Hash: SHA1 On 10/04/2012 22:01, Andre Majorel wrote: > On 2012-04-10 18:37 +0100, Phil Dobbin wrote: > >> Putting the documents (manual & reference) into tex I think is >> the best way to go & will result in a much better looking final >> PDF from which to print. > > What do you have in mind ? > > If you just put all the text in a giant monospace verbatim, it > won't be much better (or worse) that the output of vimpspp. Page > breaks and page numbering may be easier, though. > > If you intend to reflow the text, there is much to gain. But then > you need to know what is, in HTML parlance, <pre>, what is <code> > and what is neither. Dunno how easy/hard that is. > > In any case, it's essential that the process be as automated as > possible. EG, program reads /usr/share/vim/vim*/doc/ and spits out > {man,ref}.ps. Otherwise, the files will always lag behind. Well, I have this crazy idea of taking the plain text files, flowing them into markdown, then converting them into tex to be typeset & then generating a PDF ready for print. All perfectly possible using Pandoc, Vim & Lulu, just a question of how viable it is. Any thoughts appreciated. Cheers, Phil... - -- But masters, remember that I am an ass. Though it be not written down, yet forget not that I am an ass. Wm. Shakespeare - Much Ado About Nothing -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: §auto-key-locate cert pka ldap hkp://keys.gnupg.net Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPhc5xAAoJEKpMeDHWT5ADNiQH/jNcpvoVag3TWuA1NQF9M1Xy JcGlKCIugh13fAUOorVvjZqerQeH0cYhuONbthwxWGb/4tRrw1b4JIvFRNI9NAFV vg3G8VFLfnAT9DZhIiUJ4MNUYqkoJh6AD90ynEg9aiecW9vuu6tz61pvl7qYGxS9 aSx04+Q0GIkfNLE+RtjtmGLbtnPFjxnOg41BEcQcxXcpSRUtctSnQLziwJZXRZgA QpIT+H4dco3VES0KBkVKrIATCdQo5YasojFF6KGtzmwtMf2YZPJHiH2o0t0/0SHt 24aCG2JwfZIWnGXSSpo9o5WbNaVim36rph0+a3FA9zVulpZsKr10icOlyVbdFc0= =G1hG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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Hash: SHA1 On 12/04/2012 06:17, Paul Isambert wrote: > Phil Dobbin <[hidden email]> a écrit: >> On 10/04/2012 22:01, Andre Majorel wrote: >> >>> On 2012-04-10 18:37 +0100, Phil Dobbin wrote: >>> >>>> Putting the documents (manual & reference) into tex I think >>>> is the best way to go & will result in a much better looking >>>> final PDF from which to print. >>> >>> What do you have in mind ? >>> >>> If you just put all the text in a giant monospace verbatim, it >>> won't be much better (or worse) that the output of vimpspp. >>> Page breaks and page numbering may be easier, though. >>> >>> If you intend to reflow the text, there is much to gain. But >>> then you need to know what is, in HTML parlance, <pre>, what is >>> <code> and what is neither. Dunno how easy/hard that is. >>> >>> In any case, it's essential that the process be as automated as >>> possible. EG, program reads /usr/share/vim/vim*/doc/ and spits >>> out {man,ref}.ps. Otherwise, the files will always lag behind. >> >> >> Well, I have this crazy idea of taking the plain text files, >> flowing them into markdown, then converting them into tex to be >> typeset & then generating a PDF ready for print. >> >> All perfectly possible using Pandoc, Vim & Lulu, just a question >> of how viable it is. >> >> Any thoughts appreciated. > > If you're willing to use the latest engine LuaTeX instead of TeX, > I have written a package called Interpreter whose job is to > translate input files on the fly before TeX reads them (but during > the TeX compilation, it is not a preprocessor, LuaTeX lets you do > that). The obvious application (and actually, my motivation) is to > be able to write source files without TeX's \commands and > \what{ever} (I haven't used those for quite some time now); feeding > the Vim's manual directly to TeX that way is something I'd been > thinking about, but never done. The problem I fear is that the > syntax isn't unambiguous, but it'd be worth giving it a try. Hi, Paul. Yes, I'd be very interested in trying that. I have LuaTex installed alongside Tex & texlive on both my production & development boxes (Debian for Prod, OS X for devel). I don't know everybody else's opinions on the subject but we could set-up a GitHub repository maybe to try the ideas out. I'm amenable to any suggestions. Let me know what you think. Cheers, Phil... - -- But masters, remember that I am an ass. Though it be not written down, yet forget not that I am an ass. Wm. Shakespeare - Much Ado About Nothing -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: §auto-key-locate cert pka ldap hkp://keys.gnupg.net Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPhxn4AAoJEKpMeDHWT5ADIu8H/1BxgvkG2WZKbbzdyolwoSho g0awDBQUrCi+BF1fK02W/re0j71TyBrnTvQE/9c6dZqlOQz+k5kqPk6HfdMk4kV1 0a0fafR8c6J/W6ekS99Vp0ZAdfFcXjFhniqBzuhbgno2l58ptfnoLkhWNtlGVOvY SvAZLz9Ua3ei+OpzhCJ6FTtV3Qf15K04qk24oiWG72pT35RZM9WlOcxHfdZ5pHuv IRhFO+sg8zCa4NDUxuJf+OW+uy/juRmU7/w1qKTBTKBF7p9Etvgz93GCBDgHh+c7 r1nDTF8x133wrMw+i3x5fPAKWRHN0qtKiKSQ53niZE4yv5tqFB9j7HS1vhTj9Og= =cDHi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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Hash: SHA1 On 13/04/2012 06:56, Paul Isambert wrote: >> On 12/04/2012 06:17, Paul Isambert wrote: >> >>> Phil Dobbin <[hidden email]> a écrit: >> >>>> On 10/04/2012 22:01, Andre Majorel wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2012-04-10 18:37 +0100, Phil Dobbin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Putting the documents (manual & reference) into tex I think >>>>>> is the best way to go & will result in a much better looking >>>>>> final PDF from which to print. >>>>> >>>>> What do you have in mind ? >>>>> >>>>> If you just put all the text in a giant monospace verbatim, it >>>>> won't be much better (or worse) that the output of vimpspp. >>>>> Page breaks and page numbering may be easier, though. >>>>> >>>>> If you intend to reflow the text, there is much to gain. But >>>>> then you need to know what is, in HTML parlance, <pre>, what is >>>>> <code> and what is neither. Dunno how easy/hard that is. >>>>> >>>>> In any case, it's essential that the process be as automated as >>>>> possible. EG, program reads /usr/share/vim/vim*/doc/ and spits >>>>> out {man,ref}.ps. Otherwise, the files will always lag behind. >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, I have this crazy idea of taking the plain text files, >>>> flowing them into markdown, then converting them into tex to be >>>> typeset & then generating a PDF ready for print. >>>> >>>> All perfectly possible using Pandoc, Vim & Lulu, just a question >>>> of how viable it is. >>>> >>>> Any thoughts appreciated. >>> >>> If you're willing to use the latest engine LuaTeX instead of TeX, >>> I have written a package called Interpreter whose job is to >>> translate input files on the fly before TeX reads them (but during >>> the TeX compilation, it is not a preprocessor, LuaTeX lets you do >>> that). The obvious application (and actually, my motivation) is to >>> be able to write source files without TeX's \commands and >>> \what{ever} (I haven't used those for quite some time now); feeding >>> the Vim's manual directly to TeX that way is something I'd been >>> thinking about, but never done. The problem I fear is that the >>> syntax isn't unambiguous, but it'd be worth giving it a try. >> >> >> Hi, Paul. >> >> Yes, I'd be very interested in trying that. I have LuaTex installed >> alongside Tex & texlive on both my production & development boxes >> (Debian for Prod, OS X for devel). >> >> I don't know everybody else's opinions on the subject but we could >> set-up a GitHub repository maybe to try the ideas out. I'm amenable to >> any suggestions. >> >> Let me know what you think. > > For the GitHub repository, I have absolutely no experience in that, so I > have no idea either. Otherwise, if we're going to use Interpreter, then > the first step would be a description of the syntax of the Vim manual, > so that I can start writing an ``interpretation file'' (which gives the > translation between the input and the TeX output) as required by the > package. 'Git is a version control tool. Github is a "web-based hosting service for projects that use the Git revision control system"'. It has many similarities to SourceForge & similar operations. It's greatest benefit is that not only can you check in your code to version control but you can then have a mirror of your local repository at GitHub so that other collaborators on a project can also "pull" code & "push" code to the project thereby obviating the need to send emails with attachments back & forth & so on. There are two types of repo available: free which read & write enabled for everybody but in order to make changes to the repo they have to send a pull request to its owners or paid which is read only but pull requests can still be sent. Either way virtually all repos on GitHub can be obtained by using "git clone". Git itself is very to install (they do packages that are binaries if you so wish) & it is available from most all package managers/distros. As for a description of the syntax, do you mean as in a SOL (Simple Object Language) description or something along those lines? Cheers, Phil... - -- But masters, remember that I am an ass. Though it be not written down, yet forget not that I am an ass. Wm. Shakespeare - Much Ado About Nothing -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: §auto-key-locate cert pka ldap hkp://keys.gnupg.net Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPh9v4AAoJEKpMeDHWT5AD8KIH/2u6p1Pa5wdwVw8X+9y7fqsP er5vyK/Ddk+iwxWZSc85KUh6Vf72wh4Z6jEJOAT1nZw9UHQdPQMfF37B7e9UYChc L3cSwYKOg1/chkA9JiZG3WXwMi+Pjkn64lShG0csl0ZfPpPa4fmvkbuf8h0UB/Vp 9WPw0HoIRNQUncz84lYI9XREOxYqkKPJVKPswIPGsgIFfF+EmYeuIKo0CCBBvNgn 7XwTPzR0AaI9j2A4n+WdNbSGMJa3pZveyYc+7tnAsOn0suWmQEZU1XQ7hXPyvcdm rexxflTfxWVujLMpUW6mCqZWHTxjX0eB998VsQerIxY3LtaNhRIHZavrpJbpXQI= =FRrn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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