is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

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is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

Peter Princz
Hello world and a Happy New Year to everyone,

I discovered this some time ago:
- (I live in one and only huuuge outline file called BrainDump.otl,
now it's >200 kB and growing :)
- ,,cz works superfast (<5 sec) when my outline file is opened in one
and only window
- however, most of the time I have at least two windows open for the
same buffer for copy/paste, organising, brainstorming, etc. purposes
- if I accidentally hit ,,cz without closing the superfluus windows,
it takes >5 *minutes* to complete, also the CPU is on 100% load during
that time, so the whole PC is slow overall (it's windows and gvim 6.4,
btw)
- I tried to form a habit of closing the windows before updating my
progress, but I often forget and punish myself with a coffee-break :)

Is this an expected behaviour? Do you have a hint?

Thank you in advance,
  Peter

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Re: is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

Noel Henson
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 04:03 am, Peter Princz wrote:

> Hello world and a Happy New Year to everyone,
>
> I discovered this some time ago:
> - (I live in one and only huuuge outline file called BrainDump.otl,
> now it's >200 kB and growing :)
> - ,,cz works superfast (<5 sec) when my outline file is opened in one
> and only window
> - however, most of the time I have at least two windows open for the
> same buffer for copy/paste, organising, brainstorming, etc. purposes
> - if I accidentally hit ,,cz without closing the superfluus windows,
> it takes >5 *minutes* to complete, also the CPU is on 100% load during
> that time, so the whole PC is slow overall (it's windows and gvim 6.4,
> btw)
> - I tried to form a habit of closing the windows before updating my
> progress, but I often forget and punish myself with a coffee-break :)
>
> Is this an expected behaviour? Do you have a hint?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>   Peter

Peter,

How large are the files you are editing? I often have several open at
a time and some of my outlines contain 1000's of headings but I do not see
this problem. Let's see if we can get it so I can duplicate the problem
here.

Noel

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Re: is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

Peter Princz
>
> Peter,
>
> How large are the files you are editing? I often have several open at
> a time and some of my outlines contain 1000's of headings but I do not see
> this problem. Let's see if we can get it so I can duplicate the problem
> here.
>
> Noel
>

Hi Noel,

thank you for the quick reply. As I wrote, it's actually one file, but
that's >200 kB and >6700 lines.
The most laborious is my diary from the top level entries: as you can
see from the excerpt below, only two years so far (2005 and 2006) are
beneath it, but each calendar day has three categories, and everything
has a percentage for progress bar, which is 2*365*3>2000 in total.
Sometimes even the items of the calendar day categories are with
checkboxes and percenteges themselves, so it's much more than 2000,
actually.

Wherever in 2005 or 2006 you do a ,,cz, it will actually climb up the
tree to the root item 'Diary' as expected, and in fact update all the
2000+ checkmarks, actually.
As I wrote, it is still superfast if there is only one window opened
on it, but way slower after a single :split or :vsplit, even if the
second window shows an entirely different part of the file, so the
issue has nothing to do with screen refresh, I think.

One more thing I forgot to mention, but I think it has nothing to do
with the issue: the whole file is password protected.

Excerpt:

Diary
<Tab>[_] 0% 2005
...
<Tab>[_] 0% 2006
<Tab><Tab>[_] 5% January 2006
<Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% 2006.01.09 Mon
<Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Agenda
<Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% SomeItem1
<Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Reactive
<Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Creative

Have a nice day,
  Peter

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Re: is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

Peter Princz
Sorry, let me clarify myself after re-reading your email: my English
still needs to be polished, but I tried to use 'buffer', 'file' and
'window' as in vim's terminology, that is:
- I do have only one single file opened in one single buffer
- but I have 2+ windows opened for this buffer via :split or :vsplit

Thank you,
  Peter

On 03/01/06, Peter Princz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > How large are the files you are editing? I often have several open at
> > a time and some of my outlines contain 1000's of headings but I do not see
> > this problem. Let's see if we can get it so I can duplicate the problem
> > here.
> >
> > Noel
> >
>

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Re: is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

Noel Henson
In reply to this post by Peter Princz
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 05:35 am, Peter Princz wrote:

> Wherever in 2005 or 2006 you do a ,,cz, it will actually climb up the
> tree to the root item 'Diary' as expected, and in fact update all the
> 2000+ checkmarks, actually.
> As I wrote, it is still superfast if there is only one window opened
> on it, but way slower after a single :split or :vsplit, even if the
> second window shows an entirely different part of the file, so the
> issue has nothing to do with screen refresh, I think.
>
> One more thing I forgot to mention, but I think it has nothing to do
> with the issue: the whole file is password protected.
>
> Excerpt:
>
> Diary
> <Tab>[_] 0% 2005
> ...
> <Tab>[_] 0% 2006
> <Tab><Tab>[_] 5% January 2006
> <Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% 2006.01.09 Mon
> <Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Agenda
> <Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% SomeItem1
> <Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Reactive
> <Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Creative
>
> Have a nice day,
>   Peter
>
> --
> Keep cool. Develop in total darkness.

OK. I took my own diary (Outline Calendar) file and modified it to be like
yours. I do see the delay. I'm going to see if I can modify the
computations to speed things up a bit. I'm not sure if I can.

In VO, the way I use it, the first line of the file is a Title line. All
other lines are outline lines. If you modify you file to be like this:

Diary
[_] 0% 2005
...
[_] 0% 2006
<Tab>[_] 5% January 2006
<Tab><Tab>[_] 0% 2006.01.09 Mon
<Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Agenda
<Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% SomeItem1
<Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Reactive
<Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Creative

You'll see about a large speed up, for now. As the year progresses, it will
get slowere bit will always be about twice as fast as your current outline
structure. I keep my yearly files separate.  That way at most I'll process
with a ,,cx or ,,cz will be a complete month, not a complete year or, in
your case, years.

Noel

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Re: is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

Peter Princz
On 03/01/06, Noel Henson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 03 January 2006 05:35 am, Peter Princz wrote:
> > Wherever in 2005 or 2006 you do a ,,cz, it will actually climb up the
> > tree to the root item 'Diary' as expected, and in fact update all the
> > 2000+ checkmarks, actually.
> > As I wrote, it is still superfast if there is only one window opened
> > on it, but way slower after a single :split or :vsplit, even if the
> > second window shows an entirely different part of the file, so the
> > issue has nothing to do with screen refresh, I think.
> >
> > One more thing I forgot to mention, but I think it has nothing to do
> > with the issue: the whole file is password protected.
> >
> > Excerpt:
> >
> > Diary
> > <Tab>[_] 0% 2005
> > ...
> > <Tab>[_] 0% 2006
> > <Tab><Tab>[_] 5% January 2006
> > <Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% 2006.01.09 Mon
> > <Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Agenda
> > <Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% SomeItem1
> > <Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Reactive
> > <Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Creative
> >
> > Have a nice day,
> >   Peter
> >
> > --
> > Keep cool. Develop in total darkness.
>
> OK. I took my own diary (Outline Calendar) file and modified it to be like
> yours. I do see the delay. I'm going to see if I can modify the
> computations to speed things up a bit. I'm not sure if I can.
>
> In VO, the way I use it, the first line of the file is a Title line. All
> other lines are outline lines. If you modify you file to be like this:
>
> Diary
> [_] 0% 2005
> ...
> [_] 0% 2006
> <Tab>[_] 5% January 2006
> <Tab><Tab>[_] 0% 2006.01.09 Mon
> <Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Agenda
> <Tab><Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% SomeItem1
> <Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Reactive
> <Tab><Tab><Tab>[_] 0% Creative
>
> You'll see about a large speed up, for now. As the year progresses, it will
> get slowere bit will always be about twice as fast as your current outline
> structure. I keep my yearly files separate.  That way at most I'll process
> with a ,,cx or ,,cz will be a complete month, not a complete year or, in
> your case, years.
>
> Noel
>
> --
>

Hi Noel,

thank you for the fast response and the hints. Still, let me elaborate
on the issue: you do *not* need to speed up anything with the
computations, as I wrote, it's very fast (OK, maybe my computer only
:) per se if it's only one window open on the file.

What I observed is that it will slow down if you do a :split before.
Maybe it's not even VO, but a vim issue, I don't know. I just wanted
to let you know...

[Yes, normally I progress one year only: once I progress all the
pending issues as a spill-over from last year, it will be archived
(somewhere else in the same file). So it's a transient issue during
January, that I work with two calendar years in parallel.
However, Diary is only one of the top-level items in my file, so I'd
like to keep the calendar year(s) beneath it, sorry.]

Have a nice day,
  Peter

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Re: is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Peter Princz
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 08:35 am, Peter Princz wrote:
[clip]
> thank you for the quick reply. As I wrote, it's actually one file, but
> that's >200 kB and >6700 lines.
> The most laborious is my diary from the top level entries: as you can
> see from the excerpt below, only two years so far (2005 and 2006) are
> beneath it, but each calendar day has three categories, and everything
> has a percentage for progress bar, which is 2*365*3>2000 in total.
> Sometimes even the items of the calendar day categories are with
> checkboxes and percenteges themselves, so it's much more than 2000,
> actually.

Peter REALLY needs interoutline linking. I've found that as outlines get
really big, certain operations are obnoxiously slow, but that's not a problem
for me because I link a whole tree of smaller outlines together and just use
one at a time.

Peter REALLY needs interoutline linking, but AFAIK it's not available for the
Windows version because interoutline linking depends on CTAGS, which is a
Unix thing.

Any ideas how to implement interoutline linking, with as good performance as
it now has, in a more portable way?

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Founder and acting president: GoLUG
http://www.golug.org
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Re: is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

Peter Princz
On 03/01/06, Steve Litt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 03 January 2006 08:35 am, Peter Princz wrote:
> [clip]
> > thank you for the quick reply. As I wrote, it's actually one file, but
> > that's >200 kB and >6700 lines.
> > The most laborious is my diary from the top level entries: as you can
> > see from the excerpt below, only two years so far (2005 and 2006) are
> > beneath it, but each calendar day has three categories, and everything
> > has a percentage for progress bar, which is 2*365*3>2000 in total.
> > Sometimes even the items of the calendar day categories are with
> > checkboxes and percenteges themselves, so it's much more than 2000,
> > actually.
>
> Peter REALLY needs interoutline linking. I've found that as outlines get
> really big, certain operations are obnoxiously slow, but that's not a problem
> for me because I link a whole tree of smaller outlines together and just use
> one at a time.
>
> Peter REALLY needs interoutline linking, but AFAIK it's not available for the
> Windows version because interoutline linking depends on CTAGS, which is a
> Unix thing.
>
> Any ideas how to implement interoutline linking, with as good performance as
> it now has, in a more portable way?
>
> Thanks
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> Founder and acting president: GoLUG
> http://www.golug.org

Hi Steve,

good idea. However, let me add, part of the time I work on linux and
solaris also, and I do have cygwin and ctags on windows, actually.
I've seen and tried ctags based interoutline feature, but opted for
one huge file instead of many, for several other reasons. (Easier to
maintain and to move back and forth to the machine at home, etc.)

But yes, one of the ways forward is to split the treezilla into a
forest :), and don't forget the good-old hoisting also!

Still, let me go back to my point: ,,cz is fast if there is only one
window, so I think it is well optimised as a computation with trees of
this size. The issue is around :split and vim's/vo's behaviour with
many open windows, I think.

Have a nice day,
  Peter

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Re: is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

Steve Litt
On Tuesday 03 January 2006 10:26 am, Peter Princz wrote:
[clip]
> But yes, one of the ways forward is to split the treezilla into a
> forest :), and don't forget the good-old hoisting also!

I've never gotten hoisting to work reliably and in the past have lost data
using it (I can't reproduce it at this time, so I can't send in an example).
IMHO hoisting is the one and only feature in which Grandview did a better job
than VO.

SteveT
 
Steve Litt
Founder and acting president: GoLUG
http://www.golug.org
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Re: is this normal: , , cz much slower when windows splitted

Stefan Schmiedl
In reply to this post by Steve Litt
Steve Litt (03.01. 10:17):

>
> Peter REALLY needs interoutline linking, but AFAIK it's not available for the
> Windows version because interoutline linking depends on CTAGS, which is a
> Unix thing.

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ctags/ec554w32.zip?download

Happy new year, outliners!

s.

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