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laundry list

Scott Scriven-2
Hello.  I've started using vimoutliner recently, and wanted to
share my first impressions.

It's nice, and very useful, though some things seem a bit kludgy.
I like having the freedom of using plain text, since I can put
literally anything I want in a vimoutliner file.  But at the same
time, it'd be nice to have more outliner features...

Anyway, here's what I noticed or wanted in my first few weeks of
using it:

[_] Add support for simplified checkboxes, such as:
        [_] 50% parent  <-- should be 50%, but VO calculates 0%
                - to do
                + half done, or otherwise in progress
                * done
                x failed, cancelled, or otherwise aborted
                  (ignored in the completion percentage)

        : Basically, this would be an alternative form of checkboxes.
        : Instead of the current "[X] done" and "[_] not done"
        : checkboxes, the user could also use the styles shown above.
        : This is not only shorter than the current system, but also
        : implements a form of partial progress for tasks where the
        : actual percent completion isn't important.

[_] Add support for percents with no children
        [_] 50% example  <-- should be 50%, but VO calculates 37%
                [_] not done
                [_] 50% half done  <-- should be 50%, but VO resets to 0%
                [_] 50% half done with kids
                        [X] a
                        [_] b
                [X] done

        : I've attempted to create tasks with a percent but no
        : children.  When I do this, VO automatically resets the
        : percent to 0% during updates.  I'd consider this a bug.

[_] 0% add support for other stuff in the checkboxes
        [_] 50% Example  <-- should be 50%, but VO calculates 0%
                [ ] space or minus (?) or underscore for "not done"
                [+] plus for half done
                [*] asterisk for done

        : I'd find it useful if VO understood characters other than
        : "_" and "X" inside checkboxes.

[_] Fold column
        : On vim7, VO seems to display indentation levels and "-"'s in
        : the left-most column.  I'm not sure how to turn that off.

[_] Fold colors
        : Is there any way to get closed folds to be the same color as
        : when they're open?  Perhaps they could be a different style;
        : bold versus regular text...  but it'd be nice to be able to
        : set the color per indent level like with the non-folded
        : lines.

[_] \\ vs ,,
        : In Debian, the VO package uses \\ as a command prefix
        : instead of ,, .  Any idea why?

[_] New node field: "count" -- displays the number of children
        Open Bugs: #3  <-- this number would update automatically
                bug 1
                bug 2
                bug 3
        Closed Bugs: #58  <-- also updates automatically
                bug 1
                ...
                bug 58

[_] make sort recursive
        : It would be nice if sorting a branch would also sort its
        : children.

[_] Change the sort order, or make it configurable
        - should be able to ignore checkbox, and/or
        - sort checkbox state independently from text

        : The current sort orders are: completed first, then alphabetic
        : order; or completed last, in reverse alphabetic order.  I'd
        : like to have completed last, in alphabetic order...  but
        : that's not available.

[_] .vimoutlinerrc settings are dropped after a ":e"



-- Scott
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Re: laundry list

Ross Boylan
On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 14:33 -0600, Scott Scriven wrote:
> [_] \\ vs ,,
>         : In Debian, the VO package uses \\ as a command prefix
>         : instead of ,, .  Any idea why?
>
\ is apparently the standard in the rest of vim, and the Debian
maintainer wants to go with the standard.  I think there's some prospect
of the docs getting updated to reflect that.

See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=377111 for a bit
more on this, though reviewing it I see some of our exchange was not in
the bug log.

There's an easy way to change it back to ,, if you want, but I was
convinced that switching to \ (just one) was the way to go.

Ross Boylan

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Re: laundry list

Ross Boylan
On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 22:00 +0000, Ross Boylan wrote:

> On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 14:33 -0600, Scott Scriven wrote:
> > [_] \\ vs ,,
> >         : In Debian, the VO package uses \\ as a command prefix
> >         : instead of ,, .  Any idea why?
> >
> \ is apparently the standard in the rest of vim, and the Debian
> maintainer wants to go with the standard.  I think there's some prospect
> of the docs getting updated to reflect that.
>
> See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=377111 for a bit
> more on this, though reviewing it I see some of our exchange was not in
> the bug log.
>
> There's an easy way to change it back to ,, if you want, but I was
> convinced that switching to \ (just one) was the way to go.
Sorry; I meant the bug log shows an easy way to change  it back...

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Re: laundry list

Steve Litt
In reply to this post by Scott Scriven-2
On Monday 23 October 2006 04:33 pm, Scott Scriven wrote:
> [_] \\ vs ,,
>
> : In Debian, the VO package uses \\ as a command prefix
> : instead of ,, .  Any idea why?

Scott -- could you please try ,, in Debian, and also try it on another Debian
machine? ,, was picked specifically because it's VERY quick and easy. \\ is
not quick at all, and I don't think anyone should be subjected to having to
type \\. Thats just too GrandView-esque.

> [_] .vimoutlinerrc settings are dropped after a ":e"

It might also be nice to have a key combo to reload .vimoutlinerrc.

Thanks

SteveT
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Re: laundry list

Scott Scriven-2
* Steve Litt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > : In Debian, the VO package uses \\ as a command prefix
> > : instead of ,, .  Any idea why?
>
> Scott -- could you please try ,, in Debian, and also try it on
> another Debian machine? ,, was picked specifically because it's
> VERY quick and easy. \\ is not quick at all, and I don't think
> anyone should be subjected to having to type \\. Thats just too
> GrandView-esque.

I've been using ,, on debian ever since I started, actually.
IIRC, the \\ prefix never actually worked for me.  I had to go
through the config and change it before it would work.  My guess
is that the package maintainer is using , or ,, for something
else, and chose to inflict other keys to avoid conflict.


-- Scott
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Re: laundry list

Steve Litt
On Tuesday 24 October 2006 12:04 am, Scott Scriven wrote:

> * Steve Litt <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > : In Debian, the VO package uses \\ as a command prefix
> > > : instead of ,, .  Any idea why?
> >
> > Scott -- could you please try ,, in Debian, and also try it on
> > another Debian machine? ,, was picked specifically because it's
> > VERY quick and easy. \\ is not quick at all, and I don't think
> > anyone should be subjected to having to type \\. Thats just too
> > GrandView-esque.
>
> I've been using ,, on debian ever since I started, actually.
> IIRC, the \\ prefix never actually worked for me.  I had to go
> through the config and change it before it would work.  My guess
> is that the package maintainer is using , or ,, for something
> else, and chose to inflict other keys to avoid conflict.

Has anyone else needed to change the Debian package before ,, would work?

Everyone -- are there multiple Debian packages out there?

SteveT
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Re: laundry list

Tim Roberts
In reply to this post by Steve Litt
Steve Litt wrote:
On Monday 23 October 2006 04:33 pm, Scott Scriven wrote:
  
[_] \\ vs ,,

	: In Debian, the VO package uses \\ as a command prefix
	: instead of ,, .  Any idea why?
    

Scott -- could you please try ,, in Debian, and also try it on another Debian 
machine? ,, was picked specifically because it's VERY quick and easy. \\ is 
not quick at all, and I don't think anyone should be subjected to having to 
type \\. Thats just too GrandView-esque.
  

Actually, on my Cirque keyboard, "\" is on the same row as "," and only 4 keys away.  I'd have to hit it with my pinky instead of my ring finger, but it's certainly no slower than ",".

However, the basic problem is that the placement of "\" is not uniform.  On some keyboards, it's way up and to the left.  On some keyboards, it's a shifted key.  On German keyboards, they hide it someplace that I never could find.
-- 
Tim Roberts, [hidden email]
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

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Re: laundry list

Ben Armstrong
In reply to this post by Scott Scriven-2
Scott Scriven wrote:
> [_] \\ vs ,,
> : In Debian, the VO package uses \\ as a command prefix
> : instead of ,, .  Any idea why?
>  

Sure.  /usr/share/doc/vim-vimoutliner/README.Debian plainly states why:

3) Upstream documentation (located in
   /usr/share/doc/vim-vimoutliner/README) mentions ,, as the
   prefix to most VO commands. In reality, even the upstream
   package actually uses the native Vim <localleader> variable,
   which is set to \ (backslash) by default, so that a command
   listed in the README file as ,,B -- "Make body text start with
   a space", is actually executed when you type \B (with default
   defintion of <localleader>).
 
   If you want to use different localleader uncomment in
   /etc/vim/vimoutlinerrc the following line and change the value
   of the variable to whatever you want.

       "let maplocalleader = ",,"       " this is prepended to VO key


Ben

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Re: Laundry list

Matej Cepl-2
In reply to this post by Scott Scriven-2
V Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:33:31 -0600, Scott Scriven napsal(a):
> [_] \\ vs ,,
> : In Debian, the VO package uses \\ as a command prefix instead
> of ,, .
> : Any idea why?

Hi,

this is me, guilty former Debian maintainer of vimoutliner package. I am
saying former, because I have got a new job with Red Hat Czech republic
and of course it means that I have switched all my computers to Fedora
(I didn't have to switch my home computers as well, but I have only one
brain and I didn't want to keep in it quirks of two distributions;
switching to Fedora was not that much problem, but switching to Gnome
from KDE is much more irritating; oh well -- I got paid for the
pain ;-)). Therefore, I had to declare vim-vimoutliner as orphaned (it
seems that Martin Krafft could pick up the package, but I am not sure
about that -- if he did, you would have certainly much better maintainer
than me ;-); if not than of course volunteers are welcome -- and you can
do with shortcuts whatever you want). Of course, that in due course I
will try to create VO package for Fedora/Extras (Debian-like volunteers'
managed part of Fedora), but it will probably take some time.

Concerning particular issue with different command prefixes, please,
read /usr/share/doc/vim-vimoutliner/README.Debian. I have IMHO explained
it there sufficiently. \ is a default command prefix for vim and
although many people on this list (Steve and Noel in the first place)
use ,, instead, I didn't feel like forcing vim-users extending their vim
with VO (which is the primary audience I am thinking about) to something
non-default.

Best,

Matěj

(Sorry, for not replying sooner, but I tried to post couple of
follow-ups to gmane.computer.editor.vim.outliner, but apparently there
is something screwed up with that server, so I have g.c.e.v.o read-only;
will try to investigate).

--
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can bribe the people with their own money.
-- Alexis de Tocqueville
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Re: Re: Laundry list

Tim Roberts
Matej Cepl wrote:

>Concerning particular issue with different command prefixes, please,
>read /usr/share/doc/vim-vimoutliner/README.Debian. I have IMHO explained
>it there sufficiently. \ is a default command prefix for vim and
>although many people on this list (Steve and Noel in the first place)
>use ,, instead, I didn't feel like forcing vim-users extending their vim
>with VO (which is the primary audience I am thinking about) to something
>non-default.
>  
>

I don't have a Debian release, so I can't read the readme.  However, in
my many years of vim use, I have never encountered \ as a command
prefix, and I am confused by the phrase "default command prefix".  Can
you elucidate?

--
Tim Roberts, [hidden email]
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

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Re: Re: Laundry list

Ned Konz
Tim Roberts wrote:

> Matej Cepl wrote:
>
>> Concerning particular issue with different command prefixes, please,
>> read /usr/share/doc/vim-vimoutliner/README.Debian. I have IMHO explained
>> it there sufficiently. \ is a default command prefix for vim and
>> although many people on this list (Steve and Noel in the first place)
>> use ,, instead, I didn't feel like forcing vim-users extending their vim
>> with VO (which is the primary audience I am thinking about) to something
>> non-default.
>>  
>>
>
> I don't have a Debian release, so I can't read the readme.  However, in
> my many years of vim use, I have never encountered \ as a command
> prefix, and I am confused by the phrase "default command prefix".  Can
> you elucidate?
>

The <Leader> character can be set by the user. So in a mapping you can
use <Leader> instead of a literal character.

The default <Leader> character (if mapleader is not set or empty) is the
backslash character.

:help leader
:help mapleader

The <LocalLeader> is like <Leader> but is for mappings that are local to
a buffer. If not set, it defaults to the same thing as <Leader>.

Vimoutliner should be using <LocalLeader> for its command mappings.

:help localleader
:help maplocalleader



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Re: Re: Laundry list

Scott Scriven-2
In reply to this post by Matej Cepl-2
* Matej Cepl <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Concerning particular issue with different command prefixes,
> please, read /usr/share/doc/vim-vimoutliner/README.Debian.

Though I do remember seeing the ,, vs \\ issue mentioned
somewhere, it's not in the README.Debian on any version of Debian
or Ubuntu I've seen.  I don't remember where I saw it mentioned,
though.  I can't seem to find it now.


-- Scott
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Re: Re: Laundry list

Ben Armstrong
Scott Scriven wrote:
> Though I do remember seeing the ,, vs \\ issue mentioned
> somewhere, it's not in the README.Debian on any version of Debian
> or Ubuntu I've seen.  I don't remember where I saw it mentioned,
> though.  I can't seem to find it now.
>  

vimoutliner (0.3.4-4) unstable; urgency=low

  * comment in README.Debian on the issue of <localleader>
    (closes: bug#377111).

 -- Matej Cepl <[hidden email]>  Sun,  9 Jul 2006 20:23:12 -0400


I forget sometimes that not everyone runs unstable. :)

Ben

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Re: Re: Laundry list

Matej Cepl-2
Ben Armstrong píše v St 25. 10. 2006 v 13:44 -0300:

> vimoutliner (0.3.4-4) unstable; urgency=low
>

> I forget sometimes that not everyone runs unstable. :)

Every Debian package has there unstable in changelog, because every
package (except for security patches) begins there.

Matěj

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Don't come crying to me about your "30 minute
compiles"!! I have to build X uphill both ways! In the snow! With
bare feet! And we didn't have compilers! We had to translate the
C code to mnemonics OURSELVES! And I was 18 before we even had
assemblers!

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Re: Re: Laundry list

Ben Armstrong
Matej Cepl wrote:
> Every Debian package has there unstable in changelog, because every
> package (except for security patches) begins there.
>  

Certainly.  But it takes time for unstable to migrate to testing, which
explains why few people have seen this document yet.  Indeed, this
change is now in testing, so any current testing users will see it.  But
Scott said he hadn't seen it on any version of Debian *or Ubuntu* he had
seen.  And yes, the time that edgy forked from unstable, this change had
not happened.  This raises an important point.  If you Ubuntu users out
there care about keeping up with latest Debian releases, you need to
convey that to your MOTU maintainers, so we won't be later surprised to
find something missing that we all assumed would be there.

Ben

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