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刘卫

      Hello,I am a new user.I want to know how to indent mutilines by a quick way?My english is poor,sorry.

                                         WarTalker
 

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Re:

fkater@googlemail.com

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:06:49 +0800
"刘卫" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>       Hello,I am a new user.I want to know how to indent mutilines by
> a quick way?My english is poor,sorry.

In normal mode, 3>> will indent 3 lines.

You can also go into the visual mode, select the lines and then indent
them like this (from normal mode): Vjjj (as much j as you want, then) >

Felix

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Indent multilines (was: Re: (unknown) )

Sebastian Menge
In reply to this post by 刘卫

Am Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:06:49 +0800 schrieb =?GB2312?B?wfXOwA==?=:

> Hello,I am a new user.I want to know how to indent mutilines by a quick
> way?

I would do Shift-V to visually select lines with arrow-keys (or hjkl).
Then ">" to indent the block

> My english is poor,sorry.

Some general hints:
* Use a subject-line,
* Use your name (i get this as your name:  =?GB2312?B?wfXOwA==?= ),
* Use plain text rather than html-mails.

Read about "netiquette" (google in your language)

Sebastian.


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Re: Indent multilines (was: Re: (unknown) )

刘卫

Thanks a lot!

2007/8/10, Sebastian Menge <[hidden email]>:

>
> Am Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:06:49 +0800 schrieb =?GB2312?B?wfXOwA==?=:
>
> > Hello,I am a new user.I want to know how to indent mutilines by a quick
> > way?
>
> I would do Shift-V to visually select lines with arrow-keys (or hjkl).
> Then ">" to indent the block
>
> > My english is poor,sorry.
>
> Some general hints:
> * Use a subject-line,
> * Use your name (i get this as your name:  =?GB2312?B?wfXOwA==?= ),
> * Use plain text rather than html-mails.
>
> Read about "netiquette" (google in your language)
>
> Sebastian.
>
>
> >
>



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header encoding (was: Indent multilines)

Christian Ebert
In reply to this post by Sebastian Menge

* Sebastian Menge on Friday, August 10, 2007 at 07:39:28 +0000
> Am Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:06:49 +0800 schrieb =?GB2312?B?wfXOwA==?=:
[...]
>> My english is poor,sorry.
>
> Some general hints:
> * Use a subject-line,
> * Use your name (i get this as your name:  =?GB2312?B?wfXOwA==?= ),

This might be your mail/news client or font or encoding issue,
Mutt displays "刘卫" just fine here (unfortunately this doesn't
mean more than a raw string to /me/, but this is not the OP's
fault).

> * Use plain text rather than html-mails.

Couldn't agree more.

c
--
Vim plugin to paste current GNU Screen buffer in (almost) any mode:
<http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1512>

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Re: Indent multilines (was: Re: (unknown) )

Edward L. Fox
In reply to this post by 刘卫

Hi WarTalker,

On 8/10/07, WarTalker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot!

The next hint is: use bottom-posting or interleaved-posting. NO
TOP-POSTING. Google for "Posting style" for more information.

>
> 2007/8/10, Sebastian Menge <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > Am Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:06:49 +0800 schrieb =?GB2312?B?wfXOwA==?=:
> >
> > > Hello,I am a new user.I want to know how to indent mutilines by a quick
> > > way?
> >
> > I would do Shift-V to visually select lines with arrow-keys (or hjkl).
> > Then ">" to indent the block
> >
> > > My english is poor,sorry.
> >
> > Some general hints:
> > * Use a subject-line,
> > * Use your name (i get this as your name:  =?GB2312?B?wfXOwA==?= ),
> > * Use plain text rather than html-mails.
> >
> > Read about "netiquette" (google in your language)
> >
> > Sebastian.
> >
> >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> God forgot me!!!
>
> >
>

Edward L. Fox

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Re: Indent multilines (was: Re: (unknown) )

Sebastian Menge

Am Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:54:01 +0800 schrieb Edward L. Fox:

>> Thanks a lot!
>
> The next hint is: use bottom-posting or interleaved-posting. NO
> TOP-POSTING. Google for "Posting style" for more information.

Another hint: Google for "netiquette capitalizing". It is not nice to
shout at someone who says "Thank you" in the wrong way.

S.


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Re: Indent multilines

Kev-13
In reply to this post by Edward L. Fox

Edward L. Fox wrote:

> Hi WarTalker,
>
>
>  
>> Thanks a lot!
>>    
>>>> Hello,I am a new user.I want to know how to indent mutilines by a quick
>>>> way?
>>>>        
>>> I would do Shift-V to visually select lines with arrow-keys (or hjkl).
>>> Then ">" to indent the block
>>>      
Another option that will work anywhere in a block is:

1) place the cursor on the first line you would like to change in the
position you wish to insert text
2) press <c-v>I
3) type what you would like to insert.  Tab, space, any text
4) press <esc>

For example with the following text:
one two four
one two four
one two four

Place the cursor on the first line on the 'f' in four.
Press Control-v
press 3j
press I
Type three
Type escape when finished

This technique comes in very useful.
Kevin

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Re: Indent multilines

刘卫

On 8/10/07, Kev <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Edward L. Fox wrote:
> > Hi WarTalker,
> >
> >
> >
> >> Thanks a lot!
> >>
> >>>> Hello,I am a new user.I want to know how to indent mutilines by a quick
> >>>> way?
> >>>>
> >>> I would do Shift-V to visually select lines with arrow-keys (or hjkl).
> >>> Then ">" to indent the block
> >>>
> Another option that will work anywhere in a block is:
>
> 1) place the cursor on the first line you would like to change in the
> position you wish to insert text
> 2) press <c-v>I
> 3) type what you would like to insert.  Tab, space, any text
> 4) press <esc>
>
> For example with the following text:
> one two four
> one two four
> one two four
>
> Place the cursor on the first line on the 'f' in four.
> Press Control-v
> press 3j
> press I
> Type three
> Type escape when finished
>
> This technique comes in very useful.
> Kevin
>
> >
>
I see,thanx

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Re: header encoding

Tony Mechelynck
In reply to this post by Christian Ebert

Christian Ebert wrote:

> * Sebastian Menge on Friday, August 10, 2007 at 07:39:28 +0000
>> Am Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:06:49 +0800 schrieb =?GB2312?B?wfXOwA==?=:
> [...]
>>> My english is poor,sorry.
>> Some general hints:
>> * Use a subject-line,
>> * Use your name (i get this as your name:  =?GB2312?B?wfXOwA==?= ),
>
> This might be your mail/news client or font or encoding issue,
> Mutt displays "刘卫" just fine here (unfortunately this doesn't
> mean more than a raw string to /me/, but this is not the OP's
> fault).
>
>> * Use plain text rather than html-mails.
>
> Couldn't agree more.
>
> c

"刘卫" is the OP's name. I can't fault him/her for being Chinese, but if that
name were in pinyin rather than (or together with) hanzi I would at least know
how to pronounce it.


Best regards,
Tony.
--
The church is near but the road is icy; the bar is far away but I will
walk carefully.
                -- Russian Proverb

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RE: header encoding (was: Indent multilines)

Gene Kwiecinski
In reply to this post by Christian Ebert

>>* Use plain text rather than html-mails.
>Couldn't agree more.

Ditto.  I wasn't going to say anything, but *did* wonder if there were
any way to set the list to accept plaintext-only mail instead of a mix
of plaintext and mostly irritating (at least to me) html.  Doesn't have
to be global for everyone;  a me-only setting in any list preferences,
etc., would be fine.

NB that when I reply to a html message, I send back only plaintext.

I *try* to help whenever I can, but when I see top-posting, html, and
other abominations unto the LORD, it kind of prods me to just skip to
the next message.

Maybe I'm just unusually cranky today because I'm in pain, dunno.

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RE: header encoding

Gene Kwiecinski
In reply to this post by Tony Mechelynck

>"刘卫" is the OP's name. I can't fault him/her for being Chinese,
>but if that name were in pinyin rather than (or together with)
>hanzi I would at least know how to pronounce it.

Wellp, you're one-up on me.  For all *I* know, that might just translate to "beef with broccoli", however it's pronounced.  :D

(No offense to the OP, 'fcourse.)

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Re: header encoding

Tony Mechelynck

Gene Kwiecinski wrote:
>> "刘卫" is the OP's name. I can't fault him/her for being Chinese,
>> but if that name were in pinyin rather than (or together with)
>> hanzi I would at least know how to pronounce it.
>
> Wellp, you're one-up on me.  For all *I* know, that might just translate to "beef with broccoli", however it's pronounced.  :D
>
> (No offense to the OP, 'fcourse.)

Since pinyin uses the Latin alphabet, I would still not know whether that name
meant beef, broccoli, or neither; but I'd know whether it sounded like biif or
like brokoli. How many people nowadays know that Eugene means well-born? Or
whatever (if anything) is the meaning of Kwiecinski?


Best regards,
Tony.
--
BEDEVERE: How do you know so much about swallows?
ARTHUR:   Well you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
                 "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" PYTHON (MONTY) PICTURES LTD

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RE: header encoding

Gene Kwiecinski

>Since pinyin uses the Latin alphabet, I would still not know whether
that name

Aha, I didn't know that.

Then again, I'm still clueless as to how "Peking" could morph into
"Beijing".  'P' into 'B', 'k' into 'j'?  I give up...


>meant beef, broccoli, or neither; but I'd know whether it sounded like
biif or
>like brokoli. How many people nowadays know that Eugene means
well-born? Or

Ooh, ooh, *I* do!  :D


>whatever (if anything) is the meaning of Kwiecinski?

Literally, "Of April".  "Kwiecin" is the month April, and "-ski" roughly
means "of", as "de" in Spanish, "O'" in Irish, etc.

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(OT) Romanization of Chinese - Was: header encoding

Tony Mechelynck

Gene Kwiecinski wrote:
>> Since pinyin uses the Latin alphabet, I would still not know whether
> that name
>
> Aha, I didn't know that.
>
> Then again, I'm still clueless as to how "Peking" could morph into
> "Beijing".  'P' into 'B', 'k' into 'j'?  I give up...

1. Mandarin Chinese has no properly "voiced" sounds (except those that have no
unvoiced counterpart, such as l m n etc.). Pinyin uses b d g etc. to mark the
absence of aspiration, while p t k etc. represent what would have been p' t'
k' etc. in earlier romanization systems.

2. The Mandarin Chinese phonology does not permit the same variety of
consonants before i ü (and ia üe etc.) as before other vowels including
unstretched i (written i after s c z etc. but pronounced more like schwa or ø,
at least to my Western ears; maybe akin to Turkish undotted i). Pinyin uses:

xi for shi (sometimes transliterated hsi in former systems)
        shi for shø
ji for unaspirated chi
        zhi for unaspirated chø
qi for aspirated chi
        chi for aspirated chø

3. Early Western visitors in China often heard Chinese chi (Pinyin ji/qi) as
something like ki or tsi. Therefore:

Beijing, formerly written Peking in English, Pékin in French.
Xinjiang, formerly written Sin-Kiang
Tianjing, formerly written T'ien-Tsin (note the aspirated T)
Nanjing, formerly written Nankin

etc. (The -jing ending in Beijing, Tianjing and Nanjing means "capital city":
Beijing is "the Northern capital", from bei "North". I think tian and nan mean
east and south but I'm not sure, and anyway I don't know which is which.)

>
>
>> meant beef, broccoli, or neither; but I'd know whether it sounded like
> biif or
>> like brokoli. How many people nowadays know that Eugene means
> well-born? Or
>
> Ooh, ooh, *I* do!  :D
>
>
>> whatever (if anything) is the meaning of Kwiecinski?
>
> Literally, "Of April".  "Kwiecin" is the month April, and "-ski" roughly
> means "of", as "de" in Spanish, "O'" in Irish, etc.

Well, thanks for mentioning. Mechelynck is said (by the family legend) to be a
flamandization (transliteration into Flemish) of the Italian name Michaeli.
And Moolenaar of course means Miller, as can be seen on his web site.


Best regards,
Tony.
--
"You can't survive by sucking the juice from a wet mitten."
                -- Charles Schulz, "Things I've Had to Learn Over and
                   Over and Over"

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Re: header encoding

Yongwei Wu
In reply to this post by Gene Kwiecinski

On 10/08/07, Gene Kwiecinski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >Since pinyin uses the Latin alphabet, I would still not know whether
> that name
>
> Aha, I didn't know that.
>
> Then again, I'm still clueless as to how "Peking" could morph into
> "Beijing".  'P' into 'B', 'k' into 'j'?  I give up...

One word: dialects. And the difference is very minor compared to
Grimm's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm%27s_law), where

- 'pedis' becomes 'foot' and 'pater' becomes 'father'
- 'canis' becomes 'hound' and 'centrum' becomes 'hundred'

'P' into 'F', and 'K' (C) into 'H'.  How about that?

Best regards,

Yongwei

--
Wu Yongwei
URL: http://wyw.dcweb.cn/

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Re: (OT) Romanization of Chinese

Tony Mechelynck
In reply to this post by Tony Mechelynck

Yongwei Wu wrote:

> On 10/08/07, Tony Mechelynck <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Gene Kwiecinski wrote:
>>>> Since pinyin uses the Latin alphabet, I would still not know whether
>>> that name
>>>
>>> Aha, I didn't know that.
>>>
>>> Then again, I'm still clueless as to how "Peking" could morph into
>>> "Beijing".  'P' into 'B', 'k' into 'j'?  I give up...
>> 1. Mandarin Chinese has no properly "voiced" sounds (except those
>> that have no unvoiced counterpart, such as l m n etc.). Pinyin uses
>> b d g etc. to mark the absence of aspiration, while p t k etc.
>> represent what would have been p' t' k' etc. in earlier romanization
>> systems.
>>
>> 2. The Mandarin Chinese phonology does not permit the same variety
>> of consonants before i ü (and ia üe etc.) as before other vowels
>> including unstretched i (written i after s c z etc. but pronounced
>> more like schwa or ø,
>
> Not exactly. But close if you pronounce it with grinned mouth and
> closed teeth.

"to my Western ears" I said. There are certainly many subtilities in Chinese
pronunciation that I'm unable to perceive.

>
>> at least to my Western ears; maybe akin to Turkish undotted i). Pinyin uses:
>>
>> xi for shi (sometimes transliterated hsi in former systems)
>>         shi for shø
>> ji for unaspirated chi
>>         zhi for unaspirated chø
>> qi for aspirated chi
>>         chi for aspirated chø
>>
>> 3. Early Western visitors in China often heard Chinese chi (Pinyin
>> ji/qi) as something like ki or tsi. Therefore:
>
> I believe it was because different dialects.

Could be. Could also be that adult foreigners often misperceive the sounds of
a language whose phonology is very different from that of their own native
language.

>
>> Beijing, formerly written Peking in English, Pékin in French.
>> Xinjiang, formerly written Sin-Kiang
>> Tianjing, formerly written T'ien-Tsin (note the aspirated T)
>> Nanjing, formerly written Nankin
>>
>> etc. (The -jing ending in Beijing, Tianjing and Nanjing means
>> "capital city": Beijing is "the Northern capital", from bei "North".
>> I think tian and nan mean east and south but I'm not sure, and
>> anyway I don't know which is which.)
>
> Please notice Beijing is "北京", Nanjing is "南京", but Tianjin
> (notice the lack of "g") is "天津".  Nanjing really means the South
> Capital, but Tianjin has nothing to do with "capital" (as is more
> evident in the non-pinyin rendering: Tsin instead of King).

Ah, sorry. I stand corrected.

Just curious... what _does_ it mean? Let's look up the Unihan database.

U+5929 天 "sky, heaven; god, celestial", Mandarin tian1, Cantonese tin1,
Sino-Japanese (J/On) ten, Japanese (J/Kun) ame, sora

U+6D25 津 "ferry; saliva; ford", Mandarin jin1, Cantonese zeon1, Sino-Japanese
shin, Japanese tsu

Mandarin "Tianjin", Cantonese "Tinzeon", Japanese "Tenshin"... how should we
translate? Ford of Heaven? Heavenly Waters? Ferry of the Gods? Well, I guess I
get the drift (pun intended).

>
> BTW, there are at least 45 Chinese characters (counted from my pinyin
> IME) that is pronounced "jing" :-).
>
> Best regards,
>
> Yongwei
>

Sure, and IIUC with 4 different "musics" when stressed in Mandarin (the
neutral tone, no. 0 or 5, is never stressed), and many more in Cantonese.

IIUC the abundance of homonyms is, if not necessary the only reason, then one
important reason why all attempts to replace hanzi completely with a phonetic
script have failed. [For Westerners: hanzi is the Chinese name for what we
might loosely call "Chinese ideographic script", also called kanji in Japanese
and hanja in (South) Korean.]


Best regards,
Tony.
--
"We had it tough ... I had to get up at 9 o'clock at night, half an
hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of dry poison, work 29 hours down
mill, and when we came home our Dad would kill us, and dance about on
our grave singing Haleleuia ..."
                -- Monty Python

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Re: (OT) Romanization of Chinese

Edward L. Fox

On 8/11/07, Tony Mechelynck <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
> Mandarin "Tianjin", Cantonese "Tinzeon", Japanese "Tenshin"... how should we
> translate? Ford of Heaven? Heavenly Waters? Ferry of the Gods? Well, I guess I
> get the drift (pun intended).

Skyford, just follow the example of Oxford.

> [...]

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Re: (OT) Romanization of Chinese

Yongwei Wu
In reply to this post by Tony Mechelynck
On 10/08/07, Tony Mechelynck <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yongwei Wu wrote:
> >> 3. Early Western visitors in China often heard Chinese chi (Pinyin
> >> ji/qi) as something like ki or tsi. Therefore:
> >
> > I believe it was because different dialects.
>
> Could be. Could also be that adult foreigners often misperceive the sounds of
> a language whose phonology is very different from that of their own native
> language.

Good point.  I did not think of that.

> >> Beijing, formerly written Peking in English, Pékin in French.
> >> Xinjiang, formerly written Sin-Kiang
> >> Tianjing, formerly written T'ien-Tsin (note the aspirated T)
> >> Nanjing, formerly written Nankin
> >>
> >> etc. (The -jing ending in Beijing, Tianjing and Nanjing means
> >> "capital city": Beijing is "the Northern capital", from bei "North".
> >> I think tian and nan mean east and south but I'm not sure, and
> >> anyway I don't know which is which.)
> >
> > Please notice Beijing is "北京", Nanjing is "南京", but Tianjin
> > (notice the lack of "g") is "天津".  Nanjing really means the South
> > Capital, but Tianjin has nothing to do with "capital" (as is more
> > evident in the non-pinyin rendering: Tsin instead of King).
>
> Ah, sorry. I stand corrected.
>
> Just curious... what _does_ it mean? Let's look up the Unihan database.
>
> U+5929 天 "sky, heaven; god, celestial", Mandarin tian1, Cantonese tin1,
> Sino-Japanese (J/On) ten, Japanese (J/Kun) ame, sora
>
> U+6D25 津 "ferry; saliva; ford", Mandarin jin1, Cantonese zeon1, Sino-Japanese
> shin, Japanese tsu
>
> Mandarin "Tianjin", Cantonese "Tinzeon", Japanese "Tenshin"... how should we
> translate? Ford of Heaven? Heavenly Waters? Ferry of the Gods? Well, I guess I
> get the drift (pun intended).

Really I was not quite sure of the meaning of Tianjin, so I did not
explain.  A quick look at Wikipedia shows it means "Heaven Ford".  It
was named "Straight Port" before 1404.

> > BTW, there are at least 45 Chinese characters (counted from my pinyin
> > IME) that is pronounced "jing" :-).
>
> Sure, and IIUC with 4 different "musics" when stressed in Mandarin (the
> neutral tone, no. 0 or 5, is never stressed), and many more in Cantonese.
>
> IIUC the abundance of homonyms is, if not necessary the only reason, then one
> important reason why all attempts to replace hanzi completely with a phonetic
> script have failed. [For Westerners: hanzi is the Chinese name for what we
> might loosely call "Chinese ideographic script", also called kanji in Japanese
> and hanja in (South) Korean.]

Exactly.  Other reasons include why we need to place Hanzi.  All the
old literature is there.  And some modern studies (cannot think of any
references) show that Hanzi has a higher information density.  It may
be good or not, but I think it is part of the reason why I read
Chinese faster.  I tested the same familiar text in Chinese and
English, and tried not to skip anything.

However, it is still doable.  I believe South Korea has replaced
Hanja, but that was mostly a political movement.  I knew some South
Koreans who commented it was not good.

Best regards,

Yongwei

--
Wu Yongwei
URL: http://wyw.dcweb.cn/

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Re: (OT) Romanization of Chinese

Tony Mechelynck

Yongwei Wu wrote:
[...]
> However, it is still doable.  I believe South Korea has replaced
> Hanja, but that was mostly a political movement.  I knew some South
> Koreans who commented it was not good.

/North/ Korea has done away with hanja and now exclusively uses hangeul (the
Korean phonetic script, invented in Korea in the 15th century but only made
official in the 19th). In North Korea it is named choson'gul for reasons
pertaining to the name of Korea in slightly different dialects, and there
hanja is still taught in some university faculties but banned from everyday
life. As you said, the North Korean "people's democracy" (aka Stalinian
dictature) wanted to reinforce the national symbols, against the hanja
perceived as Chinese (i.e. foreign to Korea).

South Korea uses hangeul a lot, still with some hanja. According to the
Wikipedia (in French, my native language), in South Korea, hanja are still
used for people- and place-names, occasionally in the media, and to
disambiguate homonymous hangeul.

The Korean language is, IIUC, vastly different from Chinese. So is Japanese,
except that in the 8th century or earlier, the Japanese scholars (or whatever
the Japanese equivalent of mandarins were named) imported a lot of the Chinese
culture and mixed it into the Japanese (including ideographic writing, the
game of Weiqi [Go or Igo in Japanese], Chan buddhism [Zen in Japanese], etc.
etc. etc.): English has be said to be "one of the offsprings of the efforts of
Norman men-at-arms to make dates with Saxon farmers' daughters, and no more
legitimate than the other offspring of those same efforts" and indeed, in
English there are many pairs of Romance vs. Germanic words: liberty/freedom,
fraternity/brotherhood, mutton/sheep (using mutton for meat but also in
"muttonhead" and "let's return to our muttons") beef/ox (the meat is "beef",
except in: oxtail soup), etc. In Japan it went further: there even the
counting signs have two different "readings" one of which originates with
China at a time when Charlemagne wasn't yet king of the Franks: 一 meaning
"one", prononced "ichi" or "hitotsu"; 二 meaning "two", pronounced "ni" or
"futatsu"; 三 meaning "three", pronounced "san" or "mittsu"; 四 meaning
"four", pronounced "ji" or "yottsu"; etc. Quite a number of the kanji in use
in Japan nowadays have been invented in Japan, making that script just as
Japanese as the phonemic kana scripts, or as the word "liberty" is English
(especially American English, with the statue at the entry to New York
harbour). That enormous import of Chinese "readings" into Japanese also means
that the Japanese language in large part shares the Chinese's abundance of
homonyms, which, in Japan as in China, is a reason not to do away with kanji.
As you noted, the desire not to break with ancient literature is another.

>
> Best regards,
>
> Yongwei
>
> --
> Wu Yongwei
> URL: http://wyw.dcweb.cn/

Best regards,
Tony.
--
You can be stopped by the police for biking over 65 miles per hour.
You are not allowed to walk across a street on your hands.
                [real standing laws in Connecticut, United States of America]

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