subscription and e-mail usage problem

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subscription and e-mail usage problem

nabble-rob

I want to be able to use the mailing list as I did before, I received
e-mails in my inbox, I sent e-mails from my e-mail client (iceape -
mail) to the list. I have subscribed to the list, I have joined google
groups, I clicked the link in the verification e-mails from each. I
have set my subscription in google groups to:

Email (Approximately 1 email per day)
Send each message to me as it arrives

yet I receive no e-mails and I when I send an e-mail to the list I get
this return message:

subject: Posting error: vim_use

You do not have permission to post to group vim_use. You may need to
join the
group before being allowed to post, or this group may not be open to
posting.

Visit http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/about?hl=en to join or
learn more about who
is allowed to post to the group.

Help on using Google Groups is also available at:
http://groups.google.com/support?hl=en


If I send a subscription request from my e-mail to the vim
subscription address
(just to check that I am subscribed)
I get back this rather patronising e-mail:

subject: Google Groups: Subscription request to vim_use

<my e-mail address>

We recently received a request from you to subscribe to the group
vim_use.

We know you are excited about this group, but it looks like you are
already
subscribed to it.

If you have questions related to this or any other Google group,
please visit
the Help Center at http://groups.google.com/support?hl=en.

Thank you,

The Google Groups Team

I'm bored and annoyed, anyone got any idea what's going on?

Thanks,
Rob.


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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

nabble-rob

On Jul 20, 11:05 am, vim-rob_old <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I want to be able to use the mailing list as I did before, I received
> e-mails in my inbox, I sent e-mails from my e-mail client (iceape -
> mail) to the list. I have subscribed to the list, I have joined google
> groups, I clicked the link in the verification e-mails from each. I
> have set my subscription in google groups to:
>
> Email (Approximately 1 email per day)
> Send each message to me as it arrives
>
> yet I receive no e-mails and I when I send an e-mail to the list I get
> this return message:
>
> subject: Posting error: vim_use
>
> You do not have permission to post to group vim_use. You may need to
> join the
> group before being allowed to post, or this group may not be open to
> posting.
>
> Visithttp://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/about?hl=ento join or
> learn more about who
> is allowed to post to the group.
>
> Help on using Google Groups is also available at:http://groups.google.com/support?hl=en
>
> If I send a subscription request from my e-mail to the vim
> subscription address
> (just to check that I am subscribed)
> I get back this rather patronising e-mail:
>
> subject: Google Groups: Subscription request to vim_use
>
> <my e-mail address>
>
> We recently received a request from you to subscribe to the group
> vim_use.
>
> We know you are excited about this group, but it looks like you are
> already
> subscribed to it.
>
> If you have questions related to this or any other Google group,
> please visit
> the Help Center athttp://groups.google.com/support?hl=en.
>
> Thank you,
>
> The Google Groups Team
>
> I'm bored and annoyed, anyone got any idea what's going on?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob.

I should add, I had to post this from a different e-mail address for
which I already had a google groups account.


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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

Christian Ebert
In reply to this post by nabble-rob

* vim-rob_old on Friday, July 20, 2007 at 02:05:01 -0700
> We know you are excited about this group, but it looks like you are
> already subscribed to it.

Same here. I "solved" it by unsubscribing and resubscribing (this
time I went to the confirmation link instead of answering via
mail -- which had worked for vim-experiment though).

The "nice" thing about this "easy to use" interfaces is that one
is left completely in the dark what happens, it pretends to work.

I much prefer even very cryptic error messages because then
there's a slight chance that I can learn something when poking
around for the cause.

Probably the best would be to abolish the alphabet and only use
funny, easy to understand pictures. Also no need to learn Vim
then ...

c
--
Vim plugin to paste current GNU Screen buffer in (almost) any mode:
<http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1512>

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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

michael.ne

For the record: Same problem here. Couldn't subscribe via my email-
adress for mailing lists. I had used it before for the old vim-lists.
I tried via my google mail account, which was also problematic and so
I finally managed to resubscribe via google groups directly.

On 20 Jul., 12:22, Christian Ebert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> * vim-rob_old on Friday, July 20, 2007 at 02:05:01 -0700
>
> > We know you are excited about this group, but it looks like you are
> > already subscribed to it.
>
> Same here. I "solved" it by unsubscribing and resubscribing (this
> time I went to the confirmation link instead of answering via
> mail -- which had worked for vim-experiment though).
>
> The "nice" thing about this "easy to use" interfaces is that one
> is left completely in the dark what happens, it pretends to work.
>
> I much prefer even very cryptic error messages because then
> there's a slight chance that I can learn something when poking
> around for the cause.
>
> Probably the best would be to abolish the alphabet and only use
> funny, easy to understand pictures. Also no need to learn Vim
> then ...
>
> c
> --
> Vim plugin to paste current GNU Screen buffer in (almost) any mode:
> <http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1512>


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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

nabble-rob
In reply to this post by Christian Ebert

On Jul 20, 12:22 pm, Christian Ebert <[hidden email]> wrote:
> * vim-rob_old on Friday, July 20, 2007 at 02:05:01 -0700
>
> > We know you are excited about this group, but it looks like you are
> > already subscribed to it.
>
> Same here. I "solved" it by unsubscribing and resubscribing (this
> time I went to the confirmation link instead of answering via
> mail -- which had worked for vim-experiment though).

I did it the other way round, the first time I used the confirmation
link, then
saw that Bram had written on the mailing list page on vim.org that
the
confirmation link might not work, so I tried the e-mailing back
instead and
that hasn't worked either!

Well, glad it's not just me! I'll try unsubscribing and resubscribing
then and
report back


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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

Tony Mechelynck
In reply to this post by nabble-rob

vim-rob_old wrote:

> I want to be able to use the mailing list as I did before, I received
> e-mails in my inbox, I sent e-mails from my e-mail client (iceape -
> mail) to the list. I have subscribed to the list, I have joined google
> groups, I clicked the link in the verification e-mails from each. I
> have set my subscription in google groups to:
>
> Email (Approximately 1 email per day)
> Send each message to me as it arrives
>
> yet I receive no e-mails and I when I send an e-mail to the list I get
> this return message:
>
> subject: Posting error: vim_use
>
> You do not have permission to post to group vim_use. You may need to
> join the
> group before being allowed to post, or this group may not be open to
> posting.
>
> Visit http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/about?hl=en to join or
> learn more about who
> is allowed to post to the group.
>
> Help on using Google Groups is also available at:
> http://groups.google.com/support?hl=en
>
>
> If I send a subscription request from my e-mail to the vim
> subscription address
> (just to check that I am subscribed)
> I get back this rather patronising e-mail:
>
> subject: Google Groups: Subscription request to vim_use
>
> <my e-mail address>
>
> We recently received a request from you to subscribe to the group
> vim_use.
>
> We know you are excited about this group, but it looks like you are
> already
> subscribed to it.
>
> If you have questions related to this or any other Google group,
> please visit
> the Help Center at http://groups.google.com/support?hl=en.
>
> Thank you,
>
> The Google Groups Team
>
> I'm bored and annoyed, anyone got any idea what's going on?
>
> Thanks,
> Rob.

I had a similar problem here: after I subscribed (and
http://groups.google.com/groups/mysubs confirmed that I _was_ subscribed, and
with email subscription type), I got nothing into my @skynet.be inbox. I
believe that Skynet treats Google Groups as spam. The following cured the problem:

- Get a Gmail account
- Tell my mail client (Thunderbird, but what Thunderbird can do, SeaMonkey can
do too, and IceApe is based on SeaMonkey) to get mail from that gmail account
in addition to my existing mail account (Warning: SSL must be used).
- Change my subscriptions' email addresses from @skynet.be to @gmail.com,
using the Google Groups' Web interface.

Oh, and by the way: you _are_ subscribed to vim_use, since that's where I got
your post quoted above.


Best regards,
Tony.
--
It is better for civilization to be going down the drain than to be
coming up it.
                -- Henry Allen

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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

nabble-rob

On Jul 20, 2:19 pm, Tony Mechelynck <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> >
> > I had a similar problem here: after I subscribed (andhttp://groups.google.com/groups/mysubsconfirmed that I _was_ subscribed, and
> > with email subscription type), I got nothing into my @skynet.be inbox. I
> > believe that Skynet treats Google Groups as spam.

I think you've partially hit the nail on the head, I think the gsi
server must be doing the same
thing, because if I send an e-mail to the vim subscription address, I
never get a reply
back for me to confirm. However I get the error messages back saying
that I'm not
allowed to post, how can that be!


> > The following cured the problem:
> >
> > - Get a Gmail account
> > - Tell my mail client (Thunderbird, but what Thunderbird can do, SeaMonkey can
> > do too, and IceApe is based on SeaMonkey) to get mail from that gmail account
> > in addition to my existing mail account (Warning: SSL must be used).
> > - Change my subscriptions' email addresses from @skynet.be to @gmail.com,
> > using the Google Groups' Web interface.
> >
> > Oh, and by the way: you _are_ subscribed to vim_use, since that's where I got
> > your post quoted above.

no, that was sent from a different e-mail address, I can post nothing
from my gsi
address, I just tried it and I get an error back from
[hidden email] saying:

 You do not have permission to post to group vim_use. You may need to
join the
group before being allowed to post, or this group may not be open to
posting.

Visit http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/about?hl=en to join or
learn more about who
is allowed to post to the group.

Help on using Google Groups is also available at:
http://groups.google.com/support?hl=en

Useful, hey.
I could try your method Tony, but it doesn't seem we have quite the
same problem. As I receive some e-mails from google groups.

I am not clear, must one join google groups and also subscribe to the
vim mailing list?


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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

Tony Mechelynck

vim-rob_old wrote:

> On Jul 20, 2:19 pm, Tony Mechelynck <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>> I had a similar problem here: after I subscribed (andhttp://groups.google.com/groups/mysubsconfirmed that I _was_ subscribed, and
>>> with email subscription type), I got nothing into my @skynet.be inbox. I
>>> believe that Skynet treats Google Groups as spam.
>
> I think you've partially hit the nail on the head, I think the gsi
> server must be doing the same
> thing, because if I send an e-mail to the vim subscription address, I
> never get a reply
> back for me to confirm. However I get the error messages back saying
> that I'm not
> allowed to post, how can that be!
>
>
>>> The following cured the problem:
>>>
>>> - Get a Gmail account
>>> - Tell my mail client (Thunderbird, but what Thunderbird can do, SeaMonkey can
>>> do too, and IceApe is based on SeaMonkey) to get mail from that gmail account
>>> in addition to my existing mail account (Warning: SSL must be used).
>>> - Change my subscriptions' email addresses from @skynet.be to @gmail.com,
>>> using the Google Groups' Web interface.
>>>
>>> Oh, and by the way: you _are_ subscribed to vim_use, since that's where I got
>>> your post quoted above.
>
> no, that was sent from a different e-mail address, I can post nothing
> from my gsi
> address, I just tried it and I get an error back from
> [hidden email] saying:
>
>  You do not have permission to post to group vim_use. You may need to
> join the
> group before being allowed to post, or this group may not be open to
> posting.
>
> Visit http://groups.google.com/group/vim_use/about?hl=en to join or
> learn more about who
> is allowed to post to the group.
>
> Help on using Google Groups is also available at:
> http://groups.google.com/support?hl=en
>
> Useful, hey.
> I could try your method Tony, but it doesn't seem we have quite the
> same problem. As I receive some e-mails from google groups.
>
> I am not clear, must one join google groups and also subscribe to the
> vim mailing list?

At @skynet.be, I received both confirmation emails from vim-experiment (the
first one _asking_ for confirmation and the other one saying I was subscribed)
but nothing else, neither copies of what I was posting nor of what other
people were posting. Subscribing to Gmail cured that problem: now I get both
my posts and other people's.

IIUC, subscribing to the Vim mailing list /ipso facto/ makes you join Google
Groups. I may be wrong though; when I subscribed to vim-experiment (by sending
mail to [hidden email]) I already had a Google Groups account, and
vim-experiment got added besides the group to which I was already subscribed.

When posting, be sure to use your email-address-of-record (the one you used as
from-address when subscribing) as the "From" address of your post, because
anyone can join the group, but only members can post. I'm using my @gmail.com
address in the from-line of this post even though I'm sending this to the SMTP
server operated by skynet.be -- and both Skynet and Google let this outgoing
mail of mine through. My problem was exclusively with receiving Google mail
through pop.skynet.be

IIUC, you can change your email-address-of record by going to
http://groups.google.com and signing in with your (old) email address. You
need a password though; if you don't yet have one, you must create an account
or ask for a new password on an existing account.

If all goes well, you should get two copies of this post: one directly (going
straight from skynet.be [or Belgacom] to o2.co.uk) and the other through
Google Groups. You can tell which is which by hitting Ctrl-U (or clicking View
=> Message Source) in IceApe: the "direct" email should have much fewer
"Received" lines, and none of them should be from google.com servers.


Best regards,
Tony.
--
No good deed goes unpunished.
                -- Clare Boothe Luce

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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

nabble-rob

Tony, your help is greatly appreciated, but frankly I've had enough of
this for
today, it seems that google groups just will not accept the e-mail
address that
I want to use. I can't understand how you and I both received e-mails
from
the google groups e-mail address and yet you claim the e-mails from
the list in
your case are being blocked by skynet. The ones from the list come
from the
sender don't they, instead of google groups, or is skynet looking in
the headers to
then treat them as spam? Anyway, I s'pose you're probably not that
bothered if
you have a working solution ;-)
Maybe I'll go down the same path as you by trying a gmail account
forwarding in the
next few days, when I have regained my strength and willpower!

Thanks again for the help,
Rob.


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RE: subscription and e-mail usage problem

Suresh Govindachar`
In reply to this post by Tony Mechelynck


Tony wrote:

  > At @skynet.be, I received both confirmation
  > emails from vim-experiment (the first one
  > _asking_ for confirmation and the other one
  > saying I was subscribed) but nothing else,
  > neither copies of what I was posting nor of
  > what other people were posting.

  Question for Tony:  How did you respond to the first
  email, the one _asking_ for confirmation?  Did you
  send a reply or did you click on a link?

  Suggestion for Rob:  use the click method.

--Suresh


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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

Tony Mechelynck
In reply to this post by nabble-rob

vim-rob wrote:

> Tony, your help is greatly appreciated, but frankly I've had enough of
> this for
> today, it seems that google groups just will not accept the e-mail
> address that
> I want to use. I can't understand how you and I both received e-mails
> from
> the google groups e-mail address and yet you claim the e-mails from
> the list in
> your case are being blocked by skynet. The ones from the list come
> from the
> sender don't they, instead of google groups, or is skynet looking in
> the headers to
> then treat them as spam? Anyway, I s'pose you're probably not that
> bothered if
> you have a working solution ;-)
> Maybe I'll go down the same path as you by trying a gmail account
> forwarding in the
> next few days, when I have regained my strength and willpower!
>
> Thanks again for the help,
> Rob.

If you've had enough of this for today, go to bed, then come back tomorrow,
after your morning cup of coffee (or of tea or whatever) ;-)

Email from the vim-experiment list came (when I had set my "group email
address" to my @skynet.be address) from googlegroups.com to skynet.be, which
dropped them on the floor, and never listed them as "available" when I tried
to fetch them.

Spam detection can be done in several ways: one common method is to check the
headers of the message against public blacklists of "known sources of spam":
if the mail comes from one of those "known sources", it is regarded as spam.
The headers which are checked are the "Received" lines, which are added by
each mail router down the line after the mail left the machine where it was
created, and therefore cannot be counterfeit by the spammer.

I don't use forwarding on my gmail account (I suspect that if I forwarded my
gmail mail to my skynet account it would be subject to the same "spam"
filters), I fetch it directly from pop.gmail.com, which requires not only
creating a gmail account but also (in addition) enabling POP service on it and
entering the correct settings in Thunderbird (or Outlook Express, SeaMonkey,
IceApe, etc.).


Best regards,
Tony.
--
Windows
M!uqoms

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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

Tony Mechelynck
In reply to this post by nabble-rob

Suresh Govindachar wrote:

> Tony wrote:
>
>   > At @skynet.be, I received both confirmation
>   > emails from vim-experiment (the first one
>   > _asking_ for confirmation and the other one
>   > saying I was subscribed) but nothing else,
>   > neither copies of what I was posting nor of
>   > what other people were posting.
>
>   Question for Tony:  How did you respond to the first
>   email, the one _asking_ for confirmation?  Did you
>   send a reply or did you click on a link?

As I already sed in respond to a similar question earlier: I don't remember. I
think I clicked on a link but I'm not sure.

>
>   Suggestion for Rob:  use the click method.
>
> --Suresh
>
>

Best regards,
Tony.
--
Some points to remember [about animals]:

(1) Don't go to sleep under big animals, e.g., elephants, rhinoceri,
     hippopotamuses;
(2) Don't put animals with sharp teeth or poisonous fangs down the
     front of your clothes;
(3) Don't pat certain animals, e.g., crocodiles and scorpions or dogs
     you have just kicked.
                -- Mike Harding, "The Armchair Anarchist's Almanac"

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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

nabble-rob
In reply to this post by Suresh Govindachar`

>
>   Suggestion for Rob:  use the click method.
>
> --Suresh

Thanks, but I've tried both and neither works. I
have unsubscribed and resubscribed, I have
changed my e-mail address on the account
that works, o2.co.uk to the one that doesn't
gsi.de, confirmed the change, then I can no
longer send posts or receive from the list, both
of which I can do on the o2.co.uk. I think Tony
may have hit on the only possible method, but
I don't like it :-)


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Re: subscription and e-mail usage problem

Andy Kittner
In reply to this post by nabble-rob
Hi all, I just want to add my 2cent to the mystery...

I subscribed to vim-experiment via the email interface and after I send
the confirmation mail I got back an email that stated that I was already
subscribed. At first I thought that some error had occurred, but when
emails arrived I decided to ignore it.

After Bram announced that he had also moved vim-dev and vim-user, I
tried subscribing the same way - this time I got positive answers to my
confirmation mails, but than didn't receive any Messages since then.

So I conclude that my ISP doesn't filter, but the subscription process
is a bit buggy.. I just flipped my subscription via the web-interface
from email to off and than back on and see what happens. If it doesn't
work I'll probably try playing the unsubscribe/ subscribe game and if
that doesn't help either, well gmane gets vim-dev and vim-user mail
again so I'll just go back to lurk using their nntp service ;-)


Just one more thing: As quite some people seem to have problems, has
anybody tried contacting the google people yet? Might save future
subscribers some confusion if the problem could be fixed at the source.

best regards
Andy

--
BOFH Excuse #94:

Internet outage

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