to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

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to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Ramana Kumar
I have set up some abbreviations to turn certain ASCII strings into
appropriate Unicode counterparts, for example from '==>' to '=>'. This works
wonderfully.

One problem, however, is when I now have a Unicode character sitting in my
buffer, I can't jump to it easily using the insert-mode 't' and 'f'
commands. Is there any way I could do this? The best for me would be if I
could do a 't=' and have it count occurrences of '=>' among the things to
jump to, since I originally typed '=' to get that character.

A related but different issue is getting those characters into the command
line buffer, for example if I want to search for a a string containing
Unicode characters. My abbreviations won't work in that buffer... is there a
way to get them to work? Or what about yanking/putting text between the main
buffer and the command buffer?

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

BC
> A related but different issue is getting those characters into the command
> line buffer, for example if I want to search for a a string containing
> Unicode characters. My abbreviations won't work in that buffer... is there a
> way to get them to work? Or what about yanking/putting text between the main
> buffer and the command buffer?

One way to insert that character in the command line is to
do it the same way one does in the buffer: hold down Ctrl,
press v, then type u21d2

You can see the hex values of the characters you're using
with the normal command ga.

How did you insert the characters in your files to begin
with?  By copy and paste?  You can do the same for the
command line; in gvim on Windows I select text, right
click, choose copy in the popup menu, then in the command line hit
shift-insert to paste.

Or to avoid the mouse, yank the text to the + register.
With the cursor on the character you want, hit "+yl or v"+y
(perhaps there's a way to do that with fewer keystrokes,
but I don't know how.) Once it's in the + register you can
paste it into the command line (or anywhere else, if
you're using Windows) with shift-insert.

I can't help you with the first part of your question; I
do know one disappointing thing about many of these
unicode characters: some kinds of searches, for example
with the "*" character won't work on them; that is, if you
have "=> sometext", and try to do an "asterisk search" on the
"=>", "sometext" will be highlighted instead.  I don't know
if there's a work around for that.  It's really annoying,
because I'd like to be able to quickly jump to different
parts of a file marked with various unicode bullets and
other characters.  In your case, perhaps the work around
for the "t" and "f" commands would be a mapping for an
ordinary search?  Perhaps :map \t /=><Cr>

I'm in over my head, so others I hope will have better advise.

Cheers
BC

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

BC

Annoyingly, I see that Google Groups changed the '=>' I had pasted in
(from Vim) to "=>".
Strange, because it appeared correctly in the text box.

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

BC


On Sep 21, 8:21 pm, BC <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Annoyingly, I see that Google Groups changed the '=>' I had pasted in
> (from Vim) to "=>".
> Strange, because it appeared correctly in the text box.

Ok, I give up.  I don't know why the OP's unicode characters are
showing up, but not mine.
testing: '=>'
Does that appear as it should, or is it replaced again with '=>' ?

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Ramana Kumar
I haven't seen any Unicode characters from you BC, but if you're using
google's text box to send these messages that could be the issue. My
original message was sent with gmail web interface, which might (don't
know for sure) be more accepting than googlegroups web interface.

I got the characters into my buffer in the first place by using
abbreviations (iabbrev).

Thanks for info about pasting into the command line.

Unfortunately mapping a specific t and f variation for each unicode
character I want to search for is impractical, since there are 10 or
20 of them that I use.

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 10:25 AM, BC <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Sep 21, 8:21 pm, BC <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Annoyingly, I see that Google Groups changed the '=>' I had pasted in
>> (from Vim) to "=>".
>> Strange, because it appeared correctly in the text box.
>
> Ok, I give up.  I don't know why the OP's unicode characters are
> showing up, but not mine.
> testing: '=>'
> Does that appear as it should, or is it replaced again with '=>' ?
>
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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Benjamin R. Haskell-8
In reply to this post by Ramana Kumar
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010, Ramana Kumar wrote:

> I have set up some abbreviations to turn certain ASCII strings into
> appropriate Unicode counterparts, for example from '==>' to '=>'. This
> works wonderfully.

From equals, equals, greater-than, to equals, greater-than?  Must be
something about the web interface.


> One problem, however, is when I now have a Unicode character sitting
> in my buffer, I can't jump to it easily using the insert-mode 't' and
> 'f' commands. Is there any way I could do this?  The best for me would
> be if I could do a 't=' and have it count occurrences of '=>' among
> the things to jump to, since I originally typed '=' to get that
> character.

Personally, I find external-to-Vim methods for entering Unicode
characters to be much better.  For example, in order to get what I think
your arrow is (=>) in all X11 programs (including Vim under a terminal
emulator and Gvim), by typing <Compose> + <equal> + <equal> +
<greater-than> (where <Compose> = <CapsLock>), I can add this line to
~/.XCompose:

<equal> <equal> <greater> : =>

Granted, it's less portable (in terms of non-X11 environments), and can
be a pain to set up initially, but it's worth the effort if you find
yourself using non-keyboard characters frequently.

Just wanted to mention the option.  In case it's not practical, keep
reading.


> A related but different issue is getting those characters into the
> command line buffer, for example if I want to search for a a string
> containing Unicode characters. My abbreviations won't work in that
> buffer... is there a way to get them to work?

If you use :abbrev, rather than :iabbrev, they'll work in command-line
mode, too.  (Doesn't help for 't'/'f')


> Or what about yanking/putting text between the main buffer and the
> command buffer?

You might try 'q:'.  For the longest time, I found it incredibly
annoying when I would mistype my preferred 'quit' mechanism and end up
in this bizarre 'Ex' mode.  But now I use it all the time.

:help q:

If you want one of your special characters in that command-line, you can
navigate to it, and there are at least two quick ways to yank the
character under the cursor.

1) type 'vy' (no quotes) [ == enter visual mode, yank the current visual
selection of one character ]

or 2) 'yl' [ == yank + {motion} where {motion} is from the cursor to one
character to the right of the cursor, excluding that character ].

Then in the 'q:' window, you can 'p' (for 'put') it.

I can't quite figure out a way to use => with 't'.  But, perhaps the next
best thing (depending on your use-case) is the '*' search.  If you
navigate to put the cursor above the => through other means
(word/sentence/paragraph movement), you can easily get to the next one
by pressing asterisk above it.

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Best,
Ben

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Ramana Kumar
> From equals, equals, greater-than, to equals, greater-than?  Must be
> something about the web interface.

Oh don't worry, all your supposedly Unicode characters also came out
in ASCII here.

> Personally, I find external-to-Vim methods for entering Unicode characters
> to be much better.  For example, in order to get what I think your arrow is
> (=>) in all X11 programs (including Vim under a terminal emulator and Gvim),
> by typing <Compose> + <equal> + <equal> + <greater-than> (where <Compose> =
> <CapsLock>), I can add this line to ~/.XCompose:
>
> <equal> <equal> <greater> : =>
>
> Granted, it's less portable (in terms of non-X11 environments), and can be a
> pain to set up initially, but it's worth the effort if you find yourself
> using non-keyboard characters frequently.

Excellent idea. I do use compose keys but never thought about adding my own.
Thanks.

> If you use :abbrev, rather than :iabbrev, they'll work in command-line mode,
> too.  (Doesn't help for 't'/'f')

Fair point.

> You might try 'q:'.  For the longest time, I found it incredibly annoying
> when I would mistype my preferred 'quit' mechanism and end up in this
> bizarre 'Ex' mode.  But now I use it all the time.
>
> :help q:
>
> If you want one of your special characters in that command-line, you can
> navigate to it, and there are at least two quick ways to yank the character
> under the cursor.

Wow I never know what q: was for. Looks cool! My iabbrevs even work in there.

>
> 1) type 'vy' (no quotes) [ == enter visual mode, yank the current visual
> selection of one character ]
>
> or 2) 'yl' [ == yank + {motion} where {motion} is from the cursor to one
> character to the right of the cursor, excluding that character ].
>
> Then in the 'q:' window, you can 'p' (for 'put') it.
>
> I can't quite figure out a way to use => with 't'.  But, perhaps the next
> best thing (depending on your use-case) is the '*' search.  If you navigate
> to put the cursor above the => through other means (word/sentence/paragraph
> movement), you can easily get to the next one by pressing asterisk above it.

Unfortunately in my use-case there's not usually another instance of
the character lying around to pick up with *... I want the 't' for
motion up to a certain (semantic) point in the line defined by a
special character in the middle of the line, say. Currently I just end
up hitting 'w' a few times instead, but that means more keys/mental
effort spent on motion.

>
> --
> Best,
> Ben

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Ramana Kumar
>> Personally, I find external-to-Vim methods for entering Unicode characters
>> to be much better.  For example, in order to get what I think your arrow is
>> (=>) in all X11 programs (including Vim under a terminal emulator and Gvim),
>> by typing <Compose> + <equal> + <equal> + <greater-than> (where <Compose> =
>> <CapsLock>), I can add this line to ~/.XCompose:
>>
>> <equal> <equal> <greater> : =>
>>
>> Granted, it's less portable (in terms of non-X11 environments), and can be a
>> pain to set up initially, but it's worth the effort if you find yourself
>> using non-keyboard characters frequently.
>
> Excellent idea. I do use compose keys but never thought about adding my own.
> Thanks.

After experimenting with ~/.XCompose I find that it is not an ideal
solution, but perhaps only because I don't know how to use it properly.
The main problem I'm having now is that different programs behave
differently if two sequences have a common prefix.

For example, suppose I want:

<Multi_key> <less> <equal> <greater> : "⇔" # logical bi-implication

but also want

<Multi_key> <less> <equal> : "≤" # less-than or equal to

Then it seems like xterm picks the first one, and I don't know what to press
after the <equal> to say "stop the sequence here", and gvim picks the second
without giving me a chance to put the <greater> in.

An overarching problem is that I cannot find any documentation on how the
~/.XCompose file should be written, and how compose keys work in general,
apart from random forum/mailing list posts. Is there any official X
documentation (that has eluded me)?

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Christian Brabandt
In reply to this post by Benjamin R. Haskell-8
On Wed, September 22, 2010 5:31 am, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Sep 2010, Ramana Kumar wrote:
>
>> I have set up some abbreviations to turn certain ASCII strings into
>> appropriate Unicode counterparts, for example from '==>' to '=>'. This
>> works wonderfully.
>
> From equals, equals, greater-than, to equals, greater-than?  Must be
> something about the web interface.
>
>
>> One problem, however, is when I now have a Unicode character sitting
>> in my buffer, I can't jump to it easily using the insert-mode 't' and
>> 'f' commands. Is there any way I could do this?  The best for me would
>> be if I could do a 't=' and have it count occurrences of '=>' among
>> the things to jump to, since I originally typed '=' to get that
>> character.
>
> Personally, I find external-to-Vim methods for entering Unicode
> characters to be much better.  For example, in order to get what I think
> your arrow is (=>) in all X11 programs (including Vim under a terminal
> emulator and Gvim), by typing <Compose> + <equal> + <equal> +
> <greater-than> (where <Compose> = <CapsLock>), I can add this line to
> ~/.XCompose:
>
> <equal> <equal> <greater> : =>

I thought, I would mention digraphs, because they could be useful here.

That means typing <Ctrl-K> '=' '>' should give you the same character. (I
don't see it here, as my font, does not seem to provide a glyph here).
It is also worth at least considering to set the 'digraph' option. If it
is set, you type the first key, backspace and the second key and it will
result in your digraph. (e.g. pressing 'a', <BS>, ':' results in ä)

> Granted, it's less portable (in terms of non-X11 environments), and can
> be a pain to set up initially, but it's worth the effort if you find
> yourself using non-keyboard characters frequently.

I never got around to use the compose key much, because I never found a
good overview, which mappings result in which glyphs. But then, I only
need those multibyte chars very seldom (except for äöüß, which are on my
keyboard anyway).

>> A related but different issue is getting those characters into the
>> command line buffer, for example if I want to search for a a string
>> containing Unicode characters. My abbreviations won't work in that
>> buffer... is there a way to get them to work?
>
> If you use :abbrev, rather than :iabbrev, they'll work in command-line
> mode, too.  (Doesn't help for 't'/'f')

The f and t commands work when using digraphs. I.e. if you want to
jump to the ä, you press f <Ctrl-K> a : and f jumps to the ä
(but don't work when 'digraph' is set and you want to enter them using
the backspace key).

Oh, and then there is this plugin, I wrote long ago. It provides digraph
and Unicode completion. http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2822
(don't know if it useful, but I thought, I'd mention it anyway).

> You might try 'q:'.  For the longest time, I found it incredibly
> annoying when I would mistype my preferred 'quit' mechanism and end up
> in this bizarre 'Ex' mode.

I still feel that way. I never found it of any personal use for me. I
even mapped it away.

regards,
Christian

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Ramana Kumar
> I thought, I would mention digraphs, because they could be useful here.
>
> That means typing <Ctrl-K> '=' '>' should give you the same character. (I
> don't see it here, as my font, does not seem to provide a glyph here).
> It is also worth at least considering to set the 'digraph' option. If it
> is set, you type the first key, backspace and the second key and it will
> result in your digraph. (e.g. pressing 'a', <BS>, ':' results in ä)

Digraphs look like an awesome solution; I just need to add a few more
maps to the digraph table.
From first impressions, they look just as easy to use as abbreviations
(one extra keystroke), with the advantage that they also work with 't'
and 'f'.

How do they deal with a common prefix to two different digraphs, though?

> The f and t commands work when using digraphs. I.e. if you want to
> jump to the ä, you press f <Ctrl-K> a : and f jumps to the ä
> (but don't work when 'digraph' is set and you want to enter them using
> the backspace key).
>
> Oh, and then there is this plugin, I wrote long ago. It provides digraph
> and Unicode completion. http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2822
> (don't know if it useful, but I thought, I'd mention it anyway).

Thanks for the link. Not sure I need this, but if I ever want it I'll
look again.

> regards,
> Christian

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

BC
In reply to this post by Benjamin R. Haskell-8


On Sep 21, 11:31 pm, "Benjamin R. Haskell" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I can't quite figure out a way to use => with 't'.  But, perhaps the next
> best thing (depending on your use-case) is the '*' search.  If you
> navigate to put the cursor above the => through other means
> (word/sentence/paragraph movement), you can easily get to the next one
> by pressing asterisk above it.

As I mentioned in my first post, On gvim in Windows at least, that
won't work.  A '*' search with the cursor on that character (as well
as on other characters used as bullets, including the '*' itself)
won't search for the next bullet, it'll find the word after it
instead.

BC

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Simon Ruderich-2
In reply to this post by Ramana Kumar
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 02:08:27PM +1000, Ramana Kumar wrote:
> Wow I never know what q: was for. Looks cool! My iabbrevs even
> work in there.

If you already typed something in command mode (: ..), pressing
<C-F> also opens this window.

Regards,
Simon
- --
+ privacy is necessary
+ using gnupg http://gnupg.org
+ public key id: 0x92FEFDB7E44C32F9
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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Simon Ruderich-2
In reply to this post by Ramana Kumar
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 04:45:48PM +1000, Ramana Kumar wrote:
> Digraphs look like an awesome solution; I just need to add a few more
> maps to the digraph table.

:h digraphs

Adding digraphs is simple, you can however only create digraphs
consisting of two "trigger characters".

Simon
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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Benjamin R. Haskell-8
In reply to this post by BC
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010, BC wrote:

> On Sep 21, 11:31 pm, "Benjamin R. Haskell" wrote:
>> I can't quite figure out a way to use => with 't'.  But, perhaps the
>> next best thing (depending on your use-case) is the '*' search.  If
>> you navigate to put the cursor above the => through other means
>> (word/sentence/paragraph movement), you can easily get to the next
>> one by pressing asterisk above it.
>
> As I mentioned in my first post, On gvim in Windows at least, that
> won't work.  A '*' search with the cursor on that character (as well
> as on other characters used as bullets, including the '*' itself)
> won't search for the next bullet, it'll find the word after it
> instead.

Hmm.  Interesting.

:help star  describes it fully, and it's filetype-dependent, since it
depends on 'iskeyword'

Didn't realize I'd tested on a corner case.  Using % to indicate the
character in question, only the character on a line by itself works.

%nospace              " finds nospace
% word-after          " finds word
  % spaces surround    " finds spaces
%                     " finds the character
before % after        " finds after

--
Best,
Ben

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Ramana Kumar
In reply to this post by Simon Ruderich-2
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Simon Ruderich <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 04:45:48PM +1000, Ramana Kumar wrote:
>> Digraphs look like an awesome solution; I just need to add a few more
>> maps to the digraph table.
>
> :h digraphs
>
> Adding digraphs is simple, you can however only create digraphs
> consisting of two "trigger characters".

Yes I see this now. But it turns out digraphs are more awesome than I
thought: all the ones I want are already there.

Except one, which either I can't find or it isn't there: the "not" version
of the (- digraph, (i.e. "not an element of"). (I know better than to put
Unicode in this message now.)

Is there an easy way to search digraphs if you know the character you want?
I spent a while looking at the output of :dig and still missed a few the
first time.

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Nikolay Aleksandrovich Pavlov
Ответ на сообщение «Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character»,
присланное в 01:17:57 23 сентября 2010, Четверг,
отправитель Ramana Kumar:

You can use redir:
    redir! > digraphs
    silent dig
    redir END
    view digraphs
    " Use normal search here

Текст сообщения:

> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Simon Ruderich <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 04:45:48PM +1000, Ramana Kumar wrote:
> >> Digraphs look like an awesome solution; I just need to add a few more
> >> maps to the digraph table.
> >>
> > :h digraphs
> >
> > Adding digraphs is simple, you can however only create digraphs
> > consisting of two "trigger characters".
>
> Yes I see this now. But it turns out digraphs are more awesome than I
> thought: all the ones I want are already there.
>
> Except one, which either I can't find or it isn't there: the "not" version
> of the (- digraph, (i.e. "not an element of"). (I know better than to put
> Unicode in this message now.)
>
> Is there an easy way to search digraphs if you know the character you want?
> I spent a while looking at the output of :dig and still missed a few the
> first time.

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Bee-9
In reply to this post by Ramana Kumar
On Sep 22, 2:17 pm, Ramana Kumar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Simon Ruderich <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 04:45:48PM +1000, Ramana Kumar wrote:
> >> Digraphs look like an awesome solution; I just need to add a few more
> >> maps to the digraph table.
>
> > :h digraphs
>
> > Adding digraphs is simple, you can however only create digraphs
> > consisting of two "trigger characters".
>
> Yes I see this now. But it turns out digraphs are more awesome than I
> thought: all the ones I want are already there.
>
> Except one, which either I can't find or it isn't there: the "not" version
> of the (- digraph, (i.e. "not an element of"). (I know better than to put
> Unicode in this message now.)
>
> Is there an easy way to search digraphs if you know the character you want?
> I spent a while looking at the output of :dig and still missed a few the
> first time.

Is this the digraph you are looking for, like a lazy L (ell)

NO ¬  172

-Bill

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Ramana Kumar
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Bee <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Is this the digraph you are looking for, like a lazy L (ell)
>
> NO ¬  172
No I want an epsilon with a line through it: ∉

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Ramana Kumar
In reply to this post by Nikolay Aleksandrovich Pavlov
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 7:53 AM, ZyX <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ответ на сообщение <<Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character>>,
> присланное в 01:17:57 23 сентября 2010, Четверг,
> отправитель Ramana Kumar:
>
> You can use redir:
>    redir! > digraphs
>    silent dig
>    redir END
>    view digraphs
>    " Use normal search here

Thanks - cool tip!
Looks like the char I want isn't there.
Easy to add with dig, of course.

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Re: to or till (f or t) a non-ascii character

Bee-9
In reply to this post by Ramana Kumar
On Sep 22, 2:57 pm, Ramana Kumar <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Bee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Is this the digraph you are looking for, like a lazy L (ell)
>
> > NO ¬  172
>
> No I want an epsilon with a line through it: ∉

Ah like this?

:dig E/ 8713

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